Dec 10, 2025 Heritage Preservation Commission

[I. CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:09]

GOOD EVENING. I WILL CALL THE DECEMBER 10TH, 2025 MEETING OF THE STILLWATER HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION TO ORDER.

ROLL CALL. TONIGHT WE HAVE COMMISSIONERS HOLMES, MENO, HJEMDAHL, FENNELL, LARSON, TUCSON, AND COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE COLLINS. NEXT ON OUR AGENDA IS THE POSSIBLE APPROVAL OF THE NOVEMBER 12TH,

[III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]

IT SAID HE EXPRESSED CONCERNS REGARDING SAFETY SINCE PEOPLE WOULD BE COMING OUT OF THE SKATE PARK ON SKATE PARKS, AND THAT SHOULD BE SKATEBOARDS. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER CORRECTIONS TO THE MINUTES? WOULD SOMEBODY LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THE CORRECTION NOTED? I WOULD MOVE APPROVAL WITH CORRECTIONS. MINO.

GLAD TO. SECOND. MOTION BY MINO. SECOND BY HOLMES.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? MR. CHAIR, I WILL ABSTAIN.

OKAY. WE HAVE FIVE VOTES FOR ZERO VOTES AGAINST ONE ABSTENTION.

THE MOTION PASSES TO APPROVE THE MINUTES WITH THE CHANGE NOTED.

NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS THE OPEN FORUM. THE OPEN FORUM IS A CHANCE FOR THE PUBLIC TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT PART OF THE MEETING.

THE COMMISSION MAY TAKE ACTION, REPLY OR GIVE DIRECTION TO STAFF.

PLEASE LIMIT YOUR COMMENTS TO FIVE MINUTES OR LESS.

IS ANYONE HERE FOR THE OPEN FORUM TONIGHT? SEEING NONE, I WILL CLOSE THE FORUM.

WE'LL KEEP MOVING DOWN THE AGENDA. WE HAVE NO ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA TONIGHT AND NO PUBLIC HEARINGS TONIGHT.

[VII.2. Case No. CD 2025-040: Design Review for Change to Roofing Materials in the Downtown Commercial Historic District at 220 Myrtle St E]

DESIGN REVIEW FOR CHANGE TO ROOFING MATERIALS IN THE DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL HISTORIC DISTRICT AT 220 MYRTLE STREET EAST.

AND JUST LIKE LAST TIME, WE'LL WE'LL HEAR FROM STAFF, WE'LL ASK QUESTIONS OF STAFF, WE'LL HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT AND ASK QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A DISCUSSION AMONG THE COMMISSION. SO WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO STAFF. THANK YOU. CHAIR. COMMISSIONERS. AS YOU SAW IN THE MEMO, OUR PLANNING MANAGER PREPARED THE STAFF REPORT, BUT HE JUST GOT BACK FROM VACATION LAST NIGHT, SO I'M FILLING IN FOR HIM. SO HOPEFULLY I CAN INTERPRET WHAT HE PREPARED FOR YOU.

JUST TO RECAP, THIS SHOULD BE A CASE YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH.

YOU SAW IT TWO TIMES EARLIER THIS YEAR. IT WAS IN FRONT OF YOU TO LOOK AT REPLACEMENT OF ROOF.

AT 220 MYRTLE STREET EAST. AFTER YOUR SECOND MEETING, YOU VOTED TO DENY THE DESIGN REVIEW THAT WAS APPEALED TO THE COUNCIL, AND THE COUNCIL HAD KIND OF A MIXED ACTION. THEY DECIDED TO OVERTURN YOUR DENIAL OF THE REQUEST TO REPLACE THE ROOF AND DECIDED THAT THAT WAS ADEQUATE. AND BUT THEN THEY DID DECIDE TO RETURN TO YOU THE ANALYSIS OF THE APPROPRIATE REPLACEMENT MATERIALS.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT'S COMING BACK IN FRONT OF YOU TONIGHT.

THE COUNCIL HAS ALREADY DECIDED, YES, WE AGREE IT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

BUT LOOKING TO YOU TO APPROVE THE TYPES OF MATERIAL THAT WOULD BE USED TO REPLACE THE EXISTING SLATE ROOF.

SO JUST JUST TO KIND OF RECAP SOME OF THIS, THE ORIGINAL SLATE ROOF IS WHAT WAS UNDER DISCUSSION.

AND WHEN WE LOOKED AT THIS PREVIOUSLY, I KNOW YOU ALL ARE AWARE THAT THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REPLACEMENTS REALLY LOOKS AT NEW FEATURES SHALL MATCH THE OLD AND DESIGN, COLOR, TEXTURE AND OTHER VISUAL QUALITIES.

AND WHERE POSSIBLE, MATERIALS IN. THE APPLICANT IS COMING TO YOU TONIGHT WITH A DIFFERENT MATERIAL INSTEAD OF GOING WITH THE ORIGINAL SLATE, I'M PROPOSING TO REPLACE IT WITH AN ALTERNATIVE MATERIAL, THE SLATE ROOF TILE.

AND WE HAVE SOME SAMPLES IN FRONT OF YOU SO THAT YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT DURING THE MEETING. BUT ESSENTIALLY THIS THIS ROOFING MATERIAL IS A COMPOSITE POLYMER PRODUCT THAT IS MEANT TO REPLICATE THE PROFILE AND SURFACE CHARACTERISTICS OF NATURAL SLATE.

IT'S LIGHTER IN WEIGHT THAN THAN SLATE HAS UNIFORM SIZING.

IT'S BEEN ENGINEERED TO BE IMPACT AND WEATHER RESISTANT.

AND IT'S OFTEN USED ON HISTORIC STRUCTURES. SO AS YOU SEE, THERE ARE A VARIETY OF COLORS.

AND I THINK THE APPLICANT AND STAFF HAD SOME IMPRESSIONS ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE.

BUT WE BROUGHT A VARIETY FOR YOU TO LOOK AT AND TO HELP MAKE THAT DETERMINATION.

STAFF DID LOOK AT THIS MATERIAL. WE REVIEWED SOME OF THE THE MANUFACTURERS INFORMATION AND TALKED TO THE APPLICANT.

REALLY THERE'S A LOT OF MATERIAL IN YOUR PACKET, AND WE CAN TALK THROUGH AS MUCH OF IT AS YOU WOULD LIKE.

BUT IN TERMS OF MOST THINGS, WE THINK IT DOES A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF, OF OF REPLICATING THE, THE LOOK OF THAT NATURAL SLATE. I THINK THE ONE THING THAT MAYBE WE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH INFORMATION ON IS THE LONGEVITY.

IT'S A NEWER PRODUCT. THE MANUFACTURER GUARANTEES IT FOR 50 YEARS, HASN'T BEEN AROUND FOR 50 YEARS,

[00:05:04]

THERE'S INFORMATION IN THE STAFF MEMO, AND YOU SAW THE APPLICANT'S RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REALLY AROUND INSTALLATION AND HOW THEY INTEND TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE CHALLENGES WITH THIS, THIS ROOF. THE APPLICANT BROUGHT AN INSTALLER CONTRACTOR ALONG TO ANSWER SOME OF THE TECHNICAL QUESTIONS.

HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET THOSE ANSWERED FOR YOU. AS I MENTIONED, THERE'S A VARIETY OF COLORS.

SO IF WE MOVE FORWARD TONIGHT AND IMPROVE, WE'RE LOOKING FOR DIRECTION ON WHICH COLOR SAMPLE OR MIXTURE OF COLORS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

I KNOW THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS AROUND DRAINAGE AND WATER MANAGEMENT.

AND THEN SOME OTHER MAYBE QUESTIONS AROUND KIND OF SPACING REVEAL AND OTHER THINGS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY STAFF THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS AN APPROPRIATE AND ACCEPTABLE REPLACEMENT FOR THE THE SLATE THAT'S THERE.

AND HAS FINDINGS IN THE IN THE RESOLUTION TO SUPPORT THAT.

BUT WE'LL DEFINITELY LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMISSION IN ANY CONVERSATION YOU WANT TO HAVE WITH STAFF OR THE APPLICANT OR THE INSTALLER, I'LL PAUSE THERE. AND YOU KNOW, WE CAN GO ANY NUMBER OF DIRECTIONS WITH THIS IF YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT FIRST OR ASK SOME QUESTIONS.

HAPPY TO GO WHICHEVER WAY YOU'D LIKE TO. OKAY.

THANK YOU. ARE THERE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? TO THIS POINT I HAVE ONE WITH WITH REGARD TO COLOR, DO WE HAVE A SAMPLE OF THE EXISTING ROOFING MATERIAL HERE THAT WE CAN COMPARE IT TO? YEAH. COMMISSIONER ON THE LEFT, YOU SEE THERE'S A PIECE OF SLATE AND THAT CAME OFF THE ROOF.

YOU CAN SEE IT'S KIND OF TWO, TWO SHADES. ONE IS WHERE IT WAS COVERED BY OTHER TILES AND OTHERS WHERE IT WAS EXPOSED.

IT'S PROBABLY SOME DEPOSITS FROM FROM MINERALS AND STUFF OVER TIME.

BUT YOU CAN USE THAT TO KIND OF COMPARE TO ALL THE POTENTIAL ONES THAT THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED? GREAT. THANK YOU. CHAIR. COMMISSIONERS. IF YOU NEED TO TAKE SOME TIME TO COME DOWN AND LOOK AT THESE A LITTLE CLOSER, YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO DO SO. I THINK MAYBE AFTER WE HAVE A CHANCE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF STAFF, BUT MAYBE BE GOOD TO JUST TAKE A MOMENT AND FOR ALL OF US TO HAVE A CHANCE TO GO DO THAT.

OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. THE THE REPORT SAID THAT THERE WERE SOME ADDITION OF GUTTERS OR REPLACEMENT OF GUTTERS OR ALTERATIONS TO GUTTERS.

DOES THE BUILDING TODAY, DID IT HAVE AN ORIGINAL KIND OF BUILT IN GUTTER SYSTEM THAT IS BEING AUGMENTED OR.

YEAH. CHAIR THAT'S SOMETHING I'M NOT 100% SURE OF.

IT LOOKS FROM THE PHOTOS THAT THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE THE CASE. I DON'T SEE ANY ANY DOWNSPOUTS.

WE DID FORWARD YOUR QUESTION ON TO THE APPLICANTS.

HOPEFULLY THEY'LL BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THAT WHEN THEY GET UP. OKAY. SOUNDS GOOD. WE'LL ASK THAT WHEN YOU COME UP LATER. WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A LITTLE BIT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? OKAY. WELL, WHY DON'T WE JUST TAKE A MINUTE AND GIVE YOU ALL A CHANCE TO GO DOWN AND LOOK AT THOSE SAMPLES? I'D SAY MAYBE ABOUT TWO MINUTES.

ONE OF THE THINGS TO NOTICE WAS THE ORIGINAL SLATE VERSUS THE ONE WITH THE ORIGINAL SLATE.

AND MAYBE WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT. OKAY. IS THAT ALL RIGHT? I WAS JUST GOING TO POINT ONE OTHER THING. OKAY.

SURE. OKAY. YEAH, I JUST TALKED ABOUT OBSERVATION.

OKAY. POINT.

OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF BEFORE WE INVITE THE APPLICANT TO COME UP? OKAY. I INVITE WHOEVER WANTS TO REPRESENT THE APPLICANT TO COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE, AND WE'LL START FROM THERE.

IS THERE ANY WAY YOU CAN TURN THE VOLUME UP A LITTLE BIT? I CAN HARDLY HEAR IT. OH, OKAY. IT'S A QUESTION FOR THE GUYS BEHIND THE GLASS.

[00:10:01]

ARE THE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT. ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO ADD FIRST BEFORE WE.

BEFORE. I THINK THE PRODUCT USUALLY SPEAKS FOR ITSELF, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE INFORMATION THAT I BROUGHT.

YOU KNOW, IT GIVES YOU ALL THE WARRANTY INFORMATION, ALL THE INSTALL, INSTALLATION THE MAINTENANCE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S VERY MINIMAL MAINTENANCE ON IT.

JUST TO PAUSE YOU FOR A SECOND, CAN YOU GIVE YOUR YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? YEAH, MY NAME IS WALLY. I'M THE PROPERTY MANAGER FOR GARDNER COMPANIES.

THANK YOU. OKAY. GO AHEAD. SO IT TOOK A LOT OF DIFFERENT VIEWS AT DIFFERENT IN THIS.

TO ME, IT SEEMS LIKE ONE OF THE BETTER PRODUCTS WITHOUT GOING BREAKING THE BANK.

VERY REASONABLE AND COST OUTSTANDING WARRANTY.

COLOR MATCHING IS PRETTY GOOD. VERY JUST. IT HOLDS UP A LOT BETTER THAN SOME OF THE EVEN EVEN SOME OF THE SLATE.

IT OUTPERFORMED SLATE. SO IF ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS I BROUGHT THE CONTRACTORS WITH.

SO THANK YOU. IF YOU GOT ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER THEM.

SOUNDS GOOD. AND YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WERE TRYING TO TELL US THERE. IF YOU WANT TO COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE AND JUST SAY IT. SO IT'S ON THE RECORD. YEAH.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS GOING TO POINT OUT IS WITH FOR COLOR RANGE AND SORRY JAKE WITH HOFFMAN WEBER CONSTRUCTION.

GREAT. THANK YOU. IS THAT ORIGINAL SLATE WAS INSTALLED WITH COPPER NAILS.

IT OXIDIZES, AND IT CAN CHANGE THE COLOR TO A LIGHTER COLOR.

SO THE ORIGINAL COLOR, THAT WAS PROBABLY THAT SLATE 50, 70 YEARS AGO, HOWEVER LONG AGO IT WAS, WAS PROBABLY DARKER. THAT WAS WHAT I WAS GOING TO POINT OUT UP HERE.

BUT OKAY. BUT THAT WAS ALL. I APPRECIATE THAT.

YEP. OKAY. ANYTHING TO ADD? OTHERWISE, I'M GUESSING THERE ARE PROBABLY SOME QUESTIONS.

ARE THERE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? I THINK THE ONLY QUESTION IT WAS IN OR DISCUSSED IN THE REPORT WAS JUST REGARDING THE FLASHINGS AND ANY OF THE VISIBLE SHEET METAL.

WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED? AS I UNDERSTAND, THERE'S A COMBINATION OF ALUMINUM AND AND PREPAINTED GALVANIZED METAL, IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH. DO YOU WANT ME TO SAY MY NAME AGAIN OR.

NO. THANK YOU. OKAY. YEAH. SO WHAT? WE'RE. WE ARE NOT PLANNING TO REPLACE THE STEEL PANELING THAT GOES OVER THE THE DORMERS THAT THAT ARE THAT ARE STICKING OUT, AND, AND MOST OF IT IS GOING TO BE A CUSTOM BENT METAL IF IT IS REPLACED.

SO WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE'LL UNCOVER THE EXISTING TILE THAT'S THERE.

WE'LL SEE WHAT WHAT EXISTS UNDERNEATH IT. MORE THAN LIKELY IT'S UNDERWHELMING.

IT'S GOING TO NEED ADDITIONAL FLASHING. WE'LL DO A COLOR MATCH.

USUALLY IT'LL BE ALUMINUM. AND IT'LL BE ALL CUSTOM BENT TO MATCH WHAT NEEDS TO GO BACK IN THAT PLACE.

I'D LOVE TO HAVE A DESIGN UP HERE TO SHOW YOU GUYS WHAT THAT FLASHING WOULD LOOK LIKE, BUT THAT'S THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT HAVING THE ROOF TORE OFF TO ACTUALLY SEE IT.

IT'LL BE MADE ON SITE WITH A CUSTOM BRAKE. THE EXISTING FLASHINGS, YOU KNOW.

ARE THEY ZINC OR ARE THEY GALVANIZED? MORE THAN LIKELY THEY'RE GALVANIZED.

OKAY. THEY USED TO USE LEAD A LONG TIME AGO AS WELL.

THAT'S NOT EVEN AN OPTION ANYMORE. BUT MY MY RULE OF THUMB IS IF IT'S NOT BROKE AT THE FLASHING, DON'T DON'T FIX IT. DON'T TRY AND REPLACE THE FLASHING IF IT'S WORKING.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU IF YOU TAKE SOMETHING OUT THAT'S INTEGRAL TO THE CUSTOM METAL THAT GOES OVER THOSE DOMES, WE SHOULD LEAVE IT. IF IT NEEDS AN UPGRADE, THEN THAT WOULD BE WHEN AN ALUMINUM FLASHING WOULD BE ADDED, AND THAT WOULD HAVE THE SAME LIFESPAN AS THE THE ROOF IN THE BRAVA TILES.

STEEL WOULD ONLY BE FOR LIKE DORMER FLASHING.

THAT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE EXPOSED TO LIKE HAIL WIND ITEMS LIKE THAT.

BUT ALUMINUM IS IS UP TO THE COURSE TO. BUT ONE OF THE REASONS THEY'VE CHOSEN BRAVA IS TO TO BRING TO YOU GUYS IS THAT IT IS RESISTANT TO THOSE TYPES OF INCIDENTS. SO INSTEAD OF HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT YOU KNOW, FUTURE HAIL OR FUTURE WEATHER STORMS OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

OKAY. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YEAH. JUST AND ONE OTHER QUESTION, I GUESS, IS SO THE ENTIRE EXISTING SLATE WILL BE REMOVED, CORRECT. WILL THERE BE A NEW UNDERLAYMENT? ALL NEW UNDERLAYMENT WILL BE REPLACED.

OKAY. ALL WILL BE USED THROUGH THE BRAVA PROFILE.

EVERYTHING WILL BE INSTALLED TO MANUFACTURED.

SPEC THREE IS THE LARGEST GAP SPACING. 3/16 IS THE SMALLEST SPACE GAPPING THAT YOU CAN PUT.

FOR EXPANSION AND CONTRACTION. THIS PRODUCT IS PVC PLASTIC.

IT MOVES IT. IT'S NOT SLATE WHERE IT STAYS THE SAME SIZE ALL THE TIME SO THAT THAT GAP IS FOR EXPANSION.

BUT IF THERE'S A PREFERENCE, IT JUST HAS TO BE BETWEEN 3/16 AND 3/8.

[00:15:06]

SURE. SO YOU EXPLAINED TO US THAT THE OXIDIZATION IS GOING TO CAUSE THE ORIGINAL SLATE TO LIGHTEN UP OVER TIME? FORGIVE ME IF I MISSED IT IN THE INFORMATION THAT YOU PROVIDED US, HOW MUCH FADING WOULD WE SEE IN THAT PRODUCT? IF IT'S WARRANTED FOR 50 YEARS, HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO CHANGE? SO THEY THEY PROMOTE THAT? IT DOESN'T HAVE IT DOESN'T FADE.

IT HAS A MUCH BETTER QUALITY TO FADE, BUT ANY PRODUCT THAT IS DARKER FADES.

I SEE IT IN VINYL SIDING. I SEE IT IN IN METAL ROOFING.

IT WILL FADE IF IT'S DARKER AND LIGHTER COLORS WILL FADE LESS.

IT'S JUST THE NATURE OF A MAN MADE PRODUCT. THANK YOU.

YEP. I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT ONE THING. ON THE ORIGINAL SLATE.

I'M JUST GOING TO SHOW IT TO YOU GUYS. AND JUST PLEASE GO BACK TO THE MICROPHONE.

SO THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL COLOR. THAT'S 100 YEARS.

SO ANYTHING YOU PUT ON HERE IS GOING TO IT'S SOMETHING YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE EXPOSURE TO FADING AND AT SOME POINT.

BUT THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS.

THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT WATER DRAINAGE. YEAH, YEAH.

SO MAYBE THIS IS A GOOD TIME FOR THAT. SOMEBODY THE, THE PACKET TALKED ABOUT DOING SOMETHING WITH THE GUTTERS.

I WAS WONDERING IF ONE OF YOU COULD ELABORATE ON ON WHAT THAT IS AND WHAT IT WHAT AND WHERE AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

WELL, THE BUILDING DOESN'T HAVE GUTTERS ON IT RIGHT NOW. IT DID AT ONE POINT, BUT THAT WAS WAY BEFORE OUR TIME.

SO THERE WEREN'T ANY KIND OF BUILT INTO THE TO THE THERE WAS A BUILT IN TROUGH SYSTEM ON IT, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, BUT THAT'S BEEN ABANDONED.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, WE DID LOOK AT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO OPEN UP A WHOLE NOTHER MEETING OR SOMETHING FOR GUTTERS.

SO WE WERE JUST KIND OF JUST TRYING TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE WHAT MATERIAL WE'RE GOING TO USE FOR THE ROOF.

OKAY. SO AT THIS POINT, DO YOU HAVE ANY DESIGN FOR THE GUTTERS OR.

NO, WE WERE JUST KIND OF JUST GOING OFF THE ORIGINAL DESIGN THAT'S THERE RIGHT NOW.

OKAY. LIKE I SAID, THERE WAS A TROUGH SYSTEM ON IT, BUT WHO KNOWS IF YOU'VE, YOU KNOW HOW LONG AGO THAT WAS ABANDONED.

OKAY. YOU KNOW, AND THAT SYSTEM, ACTUALLY, FROM WHAT I CAN TELL, ACTUALLY RAN INTO THE SEWER SYSTEM.

SO THAT OPENS UP ANOTHER BALL OF WAX. IF YOU GOT TO TRY TO PUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT TOGETHER AGAIN.

WE WENT THAT ROUTE WITH ONE OF OUR BUILDINGS AND IT WAS REALLY EXPENSIVE.

BUT I MEAN, I GUESS I WANT YOUR OPINION ON IT.

WE TALKED ABOUT PUTTING GUTTERS ON IT. IS IT WOULD THAT BE ANOTHER MEETING? DOES IT DOES IT NEED TO HAVE GUTTERS? DOES IT NEED TO HAVE GUTTERS? IT DOESN'T HAVE GUTTERS NOW. NO. RIGHT NOW IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY GUTTER SYSTEM ON THEM RIGHT NOW.

BUT WE AND I TALKED TO THE OWNER AND WE DID TALK ABOUT IT.

I SAID, WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO BRING UP ANOTHER MEETING OR NOT.

I SAID BRING IT UP AT THE MEETING. THIS THIS MEETING AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

YEAH. SO YOU SAY THE TROUGH SYSTEM, THE INTEGRAL TROUGH SYSTEM HAS BEEN ABANDONED.

DID THEY JUST FLASH RIGHT OVER IT? THEY. SOMEBODY FLASHED OVER IT.

YEP. THAT WAS BEFORE WE HAD OWNED THE BUILDING.

SO IT'S JUST SHEDDING WATER RIGHT OFF. YEAH, JUST SHEDS IT OFF TO THE SIDE.

YEP. OKAY. I MEAN, THERE'S PLENTY ENOUGH ROOM BETWEEN THAT AND THE SIDEWALK WHERE IT DOESN'T AFFECT IT.

GET ON TO THE SIDEWALK. SO. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS GOT PROBLEMS WITH ICE AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT WE ALWAYS GOTTA SALT AND STUFF, BUT NOT ON THE SIDEWALK, JUST RIGHT AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THE BUILDING.

YEAH. AND GUTTERS INTRODUCE A DIFFERENT SET OF PROBLEMS. I'M SORRY. GUTTERS INTRODUCE A DIFFERENT SET OF PROBLEMS. YEAH. I MEAN, PERSONALLY, IF A, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT I'D LIKE TO SEE GUTTERS OUT MYSELF, YOU KNOW, PROTECT EVERYTHING AND KIND OF KEEP THE ICE AND SNOW OFF OF EVERYTHING.

AND. BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW WELL THAT GUTTER SYSTEM WORKED, EITHER.

I MEAN, WHY WOULD THEY? I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WOULD ABANDON IT.

I MEAN, YEAH, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A REASON. YEAH, I IF GUTTERS WERE NECESSARY, I WOULD PREFER TO SEE THE INTEGRAL CUSTOM, THE INTEGRAL GUTTER SYSTEM RENOVATED AND USED RATHER THAN HAVING HALF ROUND OR SOME SORT OF K GUTTER HANGING ON THAT HISTORIC BUILDING.

BUT I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE ECONOMICS OF IT AND, AND HOW CHALLENGING THAT MIGHT BE TO RENEW THAT GUTTER SYSTEM.

HAVE ANY COMMENT FROM THE FROM THE ROOFER ON THAT? YEAH. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE WORKED ON, ONE OF THOSE INTEGRAL GUTTER SYSTEMS ACTUALLY THIS PAST SUMMER AND THE WAY THAT IT'S

[00:20:05]

SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT IT RIGHT NOW AS THE ROOFING PROJECT TO STOP THE LEAKS, TO STOP THE THE ISSUES THAT ARE HAPPENING WITHIN THAT BUILDING THAT ARE CAUSING PROBLEMS, THE GUTTERS CAN BE DONE LATER. EVEN THE INTEGRAL INSIDE THE SOFFIT IS BASICALLY THEY BUILT IT INSIDE THERE, AND THEN THEY WRAP THAT SOFFIT WITH BASICALLY ONE BY AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER DECORATIVE ITEMS THAT THEY HAVE ON THERE AND THAT TO REPLACE THAT GUTTER AND TO PITCH IT PROPERLY, YOU HAVE TO DISASSEMBLE ALL OF THAT ANYWAYS.

SO THE ROOF WOULD STAY INTACT. IT WOULD NOT NEED TO BE, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY TORE OFF TO PUT THAT THAT GUTTER SYSTEM IN SHOULD THEY DECIDE, YOU KNOW, SOMEDAY OR YOU GUYS WOULD WANT TO SEE IT GO BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL LEVEL.

IT COULD, IT COULD, IT WOULD, IT WOULD JUST IT CAN BE DONE AFTER.

IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE DONE RIGHT NOW. OKAY. YEAH.

OTHER ISSUE WITH THAT INTERNAL GUTTER IS THE, THE HEIGHT OF THAT BUILDING, THE MAINTENANCE OF IT TO GET AT IT.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE. YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY DID IT IS, YOU KNOW, THEY GOT TIRED OF GETTING SCAFFOLDING OR BUCKET TRUCKS TO GET UP THAT HEIGHT, SO I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, YOU COULD PULL IT OFF AND IT COULD BE IN PRISTINE SHAPE.

YOU KNOW, WE JUST DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE GET TO THAT POINT.

YEAH, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE EITHER LED OR COPPER LINED.

THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING. PROBABLY COPPER LINED. YEAH.

OKAY. YEAH. I THINK I MEAN, FROM AN APPEARANCE POINT OF VIEW AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE ALL ABOUT.

AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT, WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED DOESN'T RADICALLY CHANGE THE APPEARANCE FROM WHAT? WHAT IT IS NOW, THEN I THINK THAT'S ACCEPTABLE.

AND IT SEEMS THAT IT DOESN'T THE WAY THEY'RE PROPOSING IT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WERE TO BE ADDING ON A GUTTER THAT DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE, THAT MIGHT BE AN ISSUE. BUT AS IT IS, WE'LL WE'LL END UP WITH AN APPEARANCE, I GUESS, FROM THE STREET VIEW OR FROM MOST PEOPLE'S VIEW.

THAT'LL BE THE SAME. I FIND THAT ACCEPTABLE. SO I THINK BEFORE WE GET TOO MUCH INTO OUR DISCUSSION, MAYBE JUST ARE THERE ANY MORE CLARIFYING QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANTS? IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S A GOOD SEGUE. MR. CHAIR, I WAS JUST CURIOUS.

I NOTE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS A RECYCLED PLASTIC, WHICH IS A BENEFIT.

AND THEN I WAS WONDERING IF YOU WERE PROPOSING TO RECYCLE THE OLD SLATE TILES.

COULD SOMEBODY COME UP TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION? YEAH, YOU BOTH ANSWERED THAT THERE WASN'T ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, BROUGHT UP ABOUT THAT TO RECYCLE IT.

I MEAN, IT'S IN, YOU KNOW, PRETTY POOR SHAPE.

IT DOES AGE LIKE ANYTHING ELSE. BUT YEAH, IT'S UP TO THESE GUYS HOW THEY'RE GOING TO HANDLE THE FOR US.

NO. IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE. THIS IS DISMEMBERING THE THE SLATE.

THE REASON THE REPAIRS WERE NOT APPLICABLE. LIKE TO TO REPAIR A SLATE ROOF, YOU HAVE TO START AT THE TOP AND WORK YOUR WAY DOWN IN A STAGGERED FORM AS YOU GET TO THE VERY BOTTOM ROW. AND FOR MY GUYS TO BE ABLE TO WORK ON THAT.

THEY THEY GET SLIPPERY AT THAT POINT WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO SAVE THEM.

THEY BASICALLY HAVE TO DO IT ALL ONE BY ONE, VERSUS WORKING FROM THE TOP AND SHAVING IT DOWN TO GET IT INTO THE EQUIPMENT AND THE LIFTS THAT THAT BASICALLY CARRY IT DOWN. WE ALSO HAVE SCAFFOLDING THERE THAT WOULD THAT HELPS CATCH AND PROTECT EVERYTHING FROM THE BOTTOM SIDE.

BUT THE PLAN WOULD BE TO TO PULL IT FROM THE TOP DOWN AND TO SAVE THESE THESE TILES WOULD BE A REMARKABLE FEAT. AND AND SAFELY. I'M CERTAINLY NO EXPERT IN THIS AREA, BUT EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT IN GOOD REPAIR, I WONDER IF YOU CAN RECYCLE THEM FOR OTHER PURPOSES.

WE DO TAKE THEM TO A LIKE A LANDSCAPE DUMP, WHICH THEY MIGHT GRIND.

THAT. OKAY. I'M NOT I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE. LIKE WE TAKE RIVER STONE OFF OF A LOW SLOPE ROOF THAT THAT GETS RECYCLED.

BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO. I CAN'T SPEAK TO, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT GOES BEYOND THAT.

BUT IT DOES NOT GO TO A, YOU KNOW, A LANDFILL WHERE IT TURNS THE DIRT OVER.

UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. YEAH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT OR ANY FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I HAVE I HAVE ONE MORE. ANY CONCERNS IS YOUR PLAN TO INSTALL THIS WINTER.

TO INSTALL THIS WINTER? NO. SPEAKING WITH WALLY.

NO. WE PLAN TO WAIT FOR THE SPRING. GREAT. I PREFER PRETTY MUCH ALL OF MY ROOF SYSTEMS TO BE PUT ON IN THE SPRING.

JUST. IT'S A HUMAN ERROR THING. NOT. NOT AN INSTALLATION OF THE OF THE OF THE PRODUCT.

IT DOES SAY THAT YOU NEED TO INSTALL IN 32 AND RISING IN THEIR IN THEIR PAMPHLET.

[00:25:05]

I DON'T LIKE TO BE OUT THERE WITH MY HANDS WHEN I'M THAT COLD EITHER. SO YOU END UP WITH WITH HUMAN ERROR MORE THAN ANYTHING AT THAT POINT. BUT YEAH, NO, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE A, YOU KNOW, SPRING.

YEAH. GREAT. YEAH. I HAD I HAD SEEN THE RECOMMENDATION FOR 32 AND ABOVE.

THAT'S WHY MY QUESTION. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. OKAY.

OKAY. THANK YOU. I'LL SHIFT GEARS THEN AND INVITE YOU ALL TO DISCUSS IT.

IT SOUNDS LIKE SOME OF THE ISSUES BEFORE US ARE IF THE IF WE THINK THAT THE REPLACEMENT MATERIAL MEETS THAT STANDARD OF OF MATCHING APPEARANCE I THINK IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE LOOKING FOR DIRECTION ON THE COLOR IF WE DO GO THAT ROUTE.

AND THEN WE HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE, THE DRAINAGE SYSTEM.

SO MAYBE IF WE START WITH THE, PROBABLY THE, THE BIG ONE OF THE APPEARANCE WHAT ARE YOUR REACTIONS TO THAT? GO AHEAD. GO AHEAD. I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, I THINK AMONG THE SYNTHETIC SLATE OPTIONS, THIS IS A VERY GOOD APPROXIMATION OF REAL SLATE. WE SEE A VARIETY OF COLOR AND GRAIN IN EACH TILE.

SO IT'S NOT GOING TO LOOK CONSISTENT IN COLOR, WHICH WOULD ALSO MAKE IT LOOK FAKE.

THERE'S ALSO VARIATION IN THE HEIGHT AND THEREFORE THE WAY THE LIGHT WILL HIT IT.

AND THAT WILL EMULATE THE THE SLATE AS WELL. SO I'M COMFORTABLE WITH WITH COLORATION.

I AGREE I THINK IT'S AN APPROPRIATE MATERIAL FOR A REPLACEMENT.

I APPRECIATE THE APPLICANT WORKING WITH US ON THAT.

THE THE METAL ROOF WAS PROBLEMATIC FOR QUITE A FEW OF US.

THIS DOES SEEM TO SEEM TO BE APPROPRIATE. AND IF IT DOES LAST 50 YEARS, THAT'S THAT'S FAIRLY IMPRESSIVE, TOO. OTHER THOUGHTS FROM COMMISSIONERS. MISTER CHAIR.

MISTER CHAIR IS THE ARUNDALE THAT IS BEING RECOMMENDED.

IS THAT THE FIRST ONE? PAST THE ORIGINAL SLATE? SLIGHTLY DARKER ONE. I THINK THERE WAS AN ANNANDALE AND A LIGHT.

ANNANDALE. THE. THIS IS THE LIGHT. THIS IS THE SINGULAR VERSION.

I WILL SAY I, I I'LL SECOND WHAT THE TWO COMMISSIONERS TO MY LEFT SAID YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS A, LOOKS LIKE A GOOD PRODUCT THAT MEETS WHAT THE STANDARDS REQUIRE US TO DO IN TERMS OF VISUAL SIMILARITY.

I APPRECIATE YOU SEEKING IT OUT AND FINDING IT.

SO I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THE PRODUCT AT THIS POINT, BUT I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE REST OF MY COMMISSIONERS.

I AGREE, I THINK IT'S A GOOD MATERIAL. YOU CAN SEE THE SHEEN, WHICH IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST ISSUE WE HAD WITH THE METAL APPROXIMATION IS MUCH CLOSER TO THE THE REAL DEAL. AND SO I'M IN FAVOR OF USING THIS MATERIAL THE COLOR, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE, IN MY OPINION, IT COULD BE EITHER OF THE TWO THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NEXT TO THEM.

WITH THE MY, MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS THE ONE THAT'S LIGHTER, OF COURSE, SEEMS TO APPROXIMATE THE CURRENT CONDITION, AND THE UNKNOWN IS HOW MUCH IT'S GOING TO FADE.

I THINK IT'LL FADE OVER TIME. I DON'T THINK IT REALLY MATTERS.

IT'LL BE A SLIGHTLY LIGHTER OR SLIGHTLY DARKER ROOF BY THE TIME WE'RE ALL DONE.

BUT I LIKE THE PRODUCT, AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD REPLACEMENT FOR THE TILE.

FOR THE THE SLATE. COUNCIL MEMBER COLLINS. MR. CHAIR, I AGREE. THE FIRST SLATE THAT WAS PROPOSED TO US A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO WAS REAL SHINY.

AND THIS LOOKS A LITTLE THIS LOOKS DEFINITELY MORE REALISTIC, SO I APPRECIATE THAT.

AND VISUALLY, I DO BELIEVE THAT THE THE LIGHTER VERSION MATCHES WHAT'S UP THERE NOW, BUT I AM SUPPORTIVE OF THIS.

LIKEWISE. AND I GUESS I ALSO JUST WANT TO THANK THE APPLICANT TOO, FOR THE WORK YOU'VE DONE.

AND, YOU KNOW, KNOWING THAT THIS IS JUST SUCH AN IMPORTANT BUILDING AND SUCH A PROMINENT LOCATION TO YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S WHY WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS MATERIAL AND HOW IT WILL LOOK WITH SUCH A FINE COMB.

[00:30:02]

SEEMS LIKE THERE'S SUPPORT FOR FOR THIS PRODUCT.

SO IF WE TURN TO THE COLOR, I THINK WE HEARD FROM COMMISSIONER LARSON, THE, THE SENSE THAT EITHER THAT ANNANDALE OR LIGHT ANNANDALE, THE TWO KIND OF GRAYISH OPTIONS THAT ARE CLOSEST TO THE EXISTING ONE, BOTH SEEMED AMENABLE.

WHAT DO THE REST OF YOU THINK? I WOULD AGREE AS WELL WITH THOSE TWO COLORS.

I LEAN A LITTLE BIT TOWARDS THE LIGHT ONE, BUT I THINK EITHER ONE WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

DOES THE APPLICANT HAVE A PREFERENCE? I KIND OF LIKE THE LIGHTER ONE MYSELF, BUT MAYBE THE SECOND ONE FROM THE END HERE. YOU KNOW, OVER TIME IT'LL FADE A LITTLE BIT, SO IT'LL KIND OF GET TO THAT COLOR, BUT I GUESS IT'LL TOTALLY GOES UP TO WHAT YOU GUYS DECIDE ON.

YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL THE SAME MATERIAL, SO IT'S JUST A COLOR WISE.

SO. YEAH. SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ONE THAT'S RIGHT THERE CLOSEST TO THE ORIGINAL.

OH. THAT ONE. OKAY. THANK YOU. LIKE I SAID, IT'S SAME MATERIAL.

JUST. I JUST CHOOSE A COLOR. YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIR DOES STATE THAT THIS IS FADE RESISTANT.

PARDON ME? DOES STATE THAT THE PRODUCT IS FADE RESISTANT? EVERYTHING IS GOING TO FADE A LITTLE BIT. YOU KNOW, THEY ALWAYS SAY, WELL, WE CAN'T GUARANTEE IT 100%, BUT, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING. AND EVEN THE SLATE, YOU LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE, IT IT'LL IT'LL FADE JUST A LITTLE BIT.

BUT THREE STORIES UP, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY'S REALLY GOING TO NOTICE IT.

THAT COLOR. SLIGHT COLOR CHANGE I DON'T KNOW.

BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO GO A LITTLE BIT DARKER, YOU CAN GO DARKER TOO.

YOU KNOW. I TEND TO THINK THAT THE DARKER OF THE TWO ARUNDELLS WILL GIVE US A LOOK. THAT'S PROBABLY MORE WHAT THE ORIGINAL WAS, AND GIVE US A LITTLE CONTRAST AGAINST THE COLOR OF THE BUILDING AS WELL, WHICH MAY NOT BE A BAD THING. AND OVER TIME IT WILL FADE A LITTLE BIT, THOUGH I NOTE THAT THEY USE MINERAL PIGMENTS, AND THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF TESTING FOR ASTM WITH BRIGHT LIGHTS, AND IT DOESN'T FADE FAST.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT GAVE ME SOME CONFIDENCE IN THE MATERIAL.

SO THANK YOU. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THE COLOR? I ALSO DON'T HAVE A STRONG PREFERENCE. SO I THINK THE ONE THAT SOUNDS LIKE IS THE APPLICANT'S PREFERENCE.

AND AND AT LEAST SOME OF THE PEOPLE UP HERE IS THAT DARKER OF THE TWO ANNANDALE'S, WHICH I THINK IS THE THE SECOND ONE OVER.

IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, I THOUGHT I HEARD THE APPLICANT SAY LIGHTER WAS THEIR PREFERRED, SAID LIGHTER, BUT YOU POINTED TO THE DARKER I THINK SO. I THINK THIS IS THE ONE YOU THOUGHT WAS THE CLOSEST MATCH.

THE LIGHT, ALTHOUGH IT SOUNDS LIKE THE DARK MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK THEY'RE BOTH EITHER GOING TO WORK ONE OF THESE TEAMS. OKAY. THE RESOLUTION IN THE PACKET ACTUALLY PROPOSED RESOLUTION HAS THE THE ARRANDALE NOT ARRANDALE LIGHT JUST AS A NOTE OKAY. THE SECOND CHANGE THAT WHATEVER.

OKAY. WELL, IF SOMEBODY HAS A DIFFERENT IDEA THEY CAN MAKE THAT AS PART OF A MOTION.

SO THEN THE LAST TOPIC HERE I THINK WOULD BE THE, THE DRAINAGE.

AND I THINK WHAT I WAS HEARING IS THAT YOU KNOW, THERE ARE NO GUTTERS THERE NOW, THERE HAVEN'T BEEN FUNCTIONAL GUTTERS FOR SOME TIME, SO IF THE PROJECT SOUNDS LIKE THE PROJECT COULD MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT ANY CHANGE AND JUST BE EXACTLY WHAT IT IS NOW AND LOOK EXACTLY AS IT DOES NOW, AND FUNCTION EXACTLY AS IT DOES NOW THAT SEEMS LIKE MAYBE THE BEST FROM WHAT I'M HEARING.

MAYBE THE BEST WAY TO JUST KEEP THIS MOVING FORWARD.

I THINK THAT IF THERE WERE TO BE GUTTERS ADDED TO IT PROPOSED, THEN WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, WHAT THE DESIGN IS, WHERE THEY DRAIN AND WHERE THEY FALL IN THE BUILDING.

AND IT SEEMS THAT UNLESS ANYBODY UP HERE OR YOU THINK OTHERWISE, THAT THERE'S MAYBE NO NEED TO TO, TO DO THAT WORK AT THIS POINT IN TIME. DOES THAT.

YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK IF THE APPLICANT DESIRES TO REHABILITATE THE EXISTING SYSTEM AS PART OF THE BUILDING.

I WOULDN'T SEE THEM NEEDING OUR APPROVAL FOR THAT SINCE IT'S ALREADY THERE AND IT'S PART OF THE STRUCTURE.

[00:35:04]

I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST COMING BACK FOR US JUST SO WE CAN SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

YOU KNOW, ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE BUILDING ITSELF.

ANYBODY HAVE A CONTRARY OPINION TO TAKE ON THAT? OKAY. I GUESS THEN IN MY VIEW, THAT WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD ADD A CONDITION OF APPROVAL OR, OR CHANGE TO THE RESOLUTION THAT THE, THE GUTTERS ARE EXCLUDED FROM THE, FROM THE DESIGN APPROVAL.

MR. CHAIR, WOULD THAT BE NEW GUTTERS OR EXCLUDED? SURE. YEAH. THE REHAB OF THE EXISTING GUTTERS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I GUESS MAYBE ONE STEP FURTHER WOULD BE TO NOT INSTALL THE CONDITION AND INSTALL THE NEW WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, NOT INSTALL THE NEW MATERIAL IN A WAY THAT WOULD PRECLUDE SOMEDAY IN THE FUTURE.

REHABILITATING THE THE INTEGRAL SYSTEM. SO MAYBE I WOULD SAY THAT THOSE ARE TWO.

OTHER CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL. I THINK ONCE YOU GET IT TORN APART, THEY'LL KNOW BETTER WHAT THE CONDITION OF THE GUTTER SYSTEM IS AND PROBABLY BE ABLE TO MAKE A BETTER DECISION. WE DON'T WANT TO STAND IN THE WAY OF THAT HAPPENING. YEAH. SO. AGREED.

ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OR IS SOMEBODY COMFORTABLE MAKING A MOTION? WELL, I WOULD MOVE APPROVAL OF THE RESOLUTION IN OUR PACKET 2025 DASH 15 WITH THE ADDITION OF, OF A CONDITION OF APPROVAL NUMBER TEN THAT IT EXCLUDES APPROVAL OF A NEW GUTTER SYSTEM. I DIDN'T ACTUALLY PICK UP THE THE SECOND PART OF THAT.

MATT. I THINK YOU HAD TWO. YEP. AND THEN THIS OTHER ONE WOULD BE THAT THE INSTALLATION OF THE PRODUCTS NOT PREVENT FUTURE REPAIR OF THE INTEGRAL GUTTER SYSTEM.

SO, SO NUMBER 11 WOULD BE THAT INSTALLATION OF THE NEW GUTTER SYSTEM OR THE NEW ROOFING SYSTEM WOULD NOT IMPACT THE. SURE. THE ORIGINAL. YEAH. GUTTER SYSTEM OR.

YEAH, THAT SOUNDS GOOD. WATER DRAINAGE SYSTEM.

SURE. IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S FLASHED OVER RIGHT NOW, AND IT WOULD POTENTIALLY BE OPENING IT UP IF YOU DECIDE TO DO THAT IN THE FUTURE.

OKAY. SO I WOULD ADD THOSE TWO CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL THAT STAFF GET THAT.

OKAY. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND.

I'LL MAKE A SECOND. HEIMDALL. OKAY. I HAVE A MOTION FROM MINO.

A SECOND BY HEIMDALL. SO AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, THE COLOR WAS I'VE THE COLOR, WHICH IS THE WHICH I APOLOGIZE. IT'S THE THE THIRD SAMPLE, BUT THE SECOND OF THE BRAVO PRODUCT.

SO THE SLIGHTLY DARKER ONE OF THE TWO. I AM FINE WITH THAT.

PERSONALLY. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION OR THE TOPIC NEEDS A SECOND.

I SECOND. OH. THAT'S RIGHT. SECOND. SORRY. OKAY.

WELL, HEARING NONE THEN. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.

AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? OKAY. THE MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY TO GRANT TO APPROVE THE RESOLUTION OF DESIGN REVIEW WITH VARIOUS CONDITIONS. SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR WORKING THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND FINDING WHAT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD PRODUCT.

AND GOOD LUCK WITH THE PROJECT. THANK YOU. SO.

[VII.3. Case No. CD 2025-048: Design Review for New-Construction Duplex in the Neighborhood Conservation District at 950 Owens St N ]

DESIGN REVIEW FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION DUPLEX IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICT AT 950 OWENS STREET NORTH.

AND JUST GETTING SET UP HERE, BUT AGAIN, THIS ONE WILL WORK THE SAME WAY.

WE'LL WE'LL HEAR FROM STAFF, ASK QUESTIONS OF STAFF, THEN WE'LL HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT ASK QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A DISCUSSION. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID LOOKS LIKE WE'VE GOT SOME UPDATED PAPER COMING IN FRONT OF US HERE, BUT I WILL TURN IT OVER TO STAFF.

THANK YOU, CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS. THIS EVENING WE'RE GOING TO REVISIT 950 OWENS STREET NORTH DESIGN REVIEW FOR A NEW CONSTRUCTION DUPLEX IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICT. THIS IS A CASE THAT WE HEARD AND TABLED AT THE PRIOR MEETING ON NOVEMBER 12TH TO

[00:40:04]

THE PROPOSED WORK IS A NEW DUPLEX ON A LONG VACANT LOT.

THIS MEETS ALL DIMENSIONAL AND LAND USE STANDARDS FOR THE RB DISTRICT, AND AT THIS TIME, THE APPLICANT DOES NOT APPEAR TO REQUIRE ANY LAND USE APPROVALS BEYOND THAT WHICH IS BEING CONSIDERED THIS EVENING FOR DESIGN REVIEW.

AND AGAIN, A REMINDER THAT THIS DUPLEX IS NOT SIDE BY SIDE, BUT RATHER A FRONT AND REAR UNIT.

SO IT PRESENTS VISUALLY AS PREDOMINANTLY A SINGLE FAMILY HOME.

SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT WE REQUESTED. WELL, FIRST WE WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THE SITE LOCATION HERE, JUST SOUTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF OWEN STREET NORTH AND WILKINS STREET WEST ON NORTH HILL.

AND NOW FOR THE RENDERINGS. THESE ARE THE UPDATED RENDERINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT.

THIS SHOWS WHAT WOULD BE THE PREDOMINANT STREET VIEW.

THIS IS LOOKING FROM THE EAST, WHICH IS THE STREET FRONTAGE ON OWEN STREET.

NORTH. YOU CAN SEE THAT SINCE THE LAST DESIGN THAT WE'VE REVIEWED WE'VE ACHIEVED CONSISTENCY IN HEIGHT OF THE GARAGE. WE HAVE ACHIEVED MORE DETAIL WITHIN THE WINDOW DESIGNS THEMSELVES.

AND ALSO YOU GET A PICTURE HERE FOR THE FOUR FOOT OFFSET BETWEEN THE TWO UNITS FRONT AND REAR, AND A BIT OF WHAT THAT ROOF DETAILING MAY APPEAR TO BE WHEN WE CONSIDER THAT THE TWO UNITS.

NOW, TO BREAK UP THAT LARGE WALL ON THE NORTH ELEVATION, WHAT IT MAY LOOK LIKE, THIS IS WHAT THE REAR WILL APPEAR TO BE.

THERE'S NO STREET FRONTAGE THAT WOULD FACE THE REAR, BUT WE HAVE A SIMILAR COLUMN DESIGN APPROACHING THE PORCH THERE.

THE SAME ROOF HEIGHT FOR THIS ATTACHED GARAGE.

AND AGAIN, A NOTE FOR THE WAY IN WHICH THIS FOUR FOOT OFFSET IMPACTS THE ROOF.

THIS IS OUR NORTH ELEVATION. PREVIOUSLY WE DID NOT HAVE THIS BREAK UP AND DOWN, BUT RATHER ONE LONG BLANK WALL.

NOW, INSTEAD WE HAVE ACHIEVED A BREAK IN THE MASSING WHEN VIEWED FROM THE NORTH, AND ADDITIONAL WINDOWS HAVE BEEN ADDED AND THEN MADE CONSISTENT ACROSS THE ELEVATION. SAME FROM THE SOUTH.

WE HAVE WINDOWS THAT ARE MORE CONSISTENTLY PLACED, AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE ALSO HAVE THE ADDITION OF WINDOWS ONTO THE SIDE OF THE GARAGES, WHICH WAS A FEATURE NOT PRESENT IN THE RENDERINGS VIEWED IN NOVEMBER.

NOW WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE INITIAL RENDERINGS.

YOU CAN SEE THAT TO PROVIDE HARMONY IN THE WINDOWS WE HAVE NOW, WINDOWS ON THE LOWER LEVEL OF THE FRONT ELEVATION, MORE WINDOWS ON THE NORTH, BOTH TO THE RIGHT AND LEFT OF WHAT IS SHOWN, AND ADDITIONALLY WINDOWS IN THE RESTROOMS ON THE UPPER STORY OF THE SOUTH ELEVATION.

THESE COLORED RENDERINGS THAT WERE VIEWED LAST MONTH ARE NOT INDICATIVE OF THE DESIGN THAT IS BEING PROPOSED BY THE APPLICANT TODAY, BUT WE'VE MERELY CONTINUED TO INCLUDE THEM, AS THE APPLICANT HAS STATED THAT THE INTENTION IS FOR THESE TO BE VIEWED FOR A SAMPLING OF THE COLOR PALETTE ONLY. ALL OF THE RENDERINGS OFF OF WHICH WE'RE BASING OUR DECISION TODAY ARE THESE WHICH ARE PRESENTED TO US IN BLACK AND WHITE NOW. SO WE HAVE OUR EAST HERE, WEST, NORTH AND SOUTH.

THE RECOMMENDED CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL ARE FAIRLY STANDARD.

WE ATTACH THESE TO. ALL OF OUR NEW CONSTRUCTION, OUR NEW CONSTRUCTION DESIGN APPROVAL REVIEWS. WE HAVE THAT ONE. THE DESIGNS SHALL BE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE ON FILE IN THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, EXCEPT AS MODIFIED HEREIN TO PRIOR TO THE RELEASE OF A BUILDING PERMIT, THE APPLICANT AND OR PROPERTY OWNER SHALL PROVIDE PROOF OF CONFORMANCE TO THE APPROVED DESIGN APPROVAL GRANTED HEREIN. AND FINALLY, ALL MINOR MODIFICATIONS TO THE PLAN SHALL BE APPROVED IN ADVANCE BY THE CITY PLANNER.

ALL MAJOR MODIFICATIONS SHALL BE APPROVED IN ADVANCE BY THE HPC.

DETERMINATION OF THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN MAJOR AND MINOR IS DEFINED IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, AND DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE APPLICANT HAS MADE EFFORTS TO REMEDY EACH OF THE CHALLENGES HIGHLIGHTED BY THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION AT ITS NOVEMBER MEETING, AND WE THINK THAT THIS NEW DESIGN MORE CLOSELY MEETS THE STILLWATER DESIGN

[00:45:10]

EARLIER THIS WEEK, IT WAS BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION THAT THE COMMISSION DESIRED TO SEE AN UPDATED SITE PLAN.

WE HAD BEEN PROVIDED WITH A FLOOR PLAN THAT DID CLEARLY SHOW TO STAFF THAT THOSE TWO UNITS WERE OFFSET IN A MANNER THAT MATCHED THE OTHER ELEVATIONS SHOWN. BUT DUE TO PRIVACY CONCERNS, WE ARE UNABLE TO PROVIDE YOU ALL WITH THE INTERIOR FLOOR PLAN THAT SHOWED THAT. BUT THE APPLICANT TODAY HAS PROVIDED FOR THE COMMISSION'S REVIEW AND STAFF'S AN UPDATED CERTIFICATE OF SURVEY THAT DOES SHOW THE WAY IN WHICH THE MASSING OF THE STRUCTURE HAS BEEN BROKEN UP THROUGH THE FOUR FOOT OFFSET OF THE UNITS, OR OF THE UNIT IN THE REAR FROM THAT IN THE FRONT.

WE'LL NOTE THAT DESPITE OFFSETTING IT FOUR FEET TO THE SOUTH FROM ITS ORIGINAL LOCATION, THE NEW STRUCTURE OR THE NEW LOCATION OF THE REAR UNIT IS STILL WHOLLY BEHIND THAT OF THE FRONT. SO THE VISUAL APPEARANCE FROM THE STREET IS UNLIKELY TO PRESENT AS A DUPLEX. REGARDLESS, I NOW STAND FOR QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU. ARE THERE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? NOT SEEING ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. THEY WILL INVITE THE APPLICANTS TO COME UP.

AND IF YOU WOULD GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE. YES. GOOD AFTERNOON.

MY NAME IS GREG JOHNSON. I'M WITH NOTTINGHAM CONSTRUCTION AND WE'RE THE APPLICANT.

BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.

THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? YEAH, I HAD ONE. I GUESS I APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE AND THE THE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE DRAWINGS THAT WE SAW LAST TIME.

AND I THINK THE OFFSET IS, IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT'LL HELP THE THE MASSING OF THE BUILDING.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS WE, WE ASKED FOR A SITE PLAN IS JUST, WELL, WE NEED TO KNOW WHERE IT IS.

WE NEED ESPECIALLY TO KNOW WHERE IT IS ACCORDING TO OUR GUIDELINES IN RELATION TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES.

BUT IF I, I MEAN, I'VE LOOKED AT IT ON GOOGLE MAPS AND THAT SORT OF THING, IT DOESN'T SHOW UP ON YOUR ADJACENT PROPERTIES, BUT WITH YOUR THE SETBACK THAT YOU HAVE A 50 FOOT SETBACK THAT SETS IT BACK SLIGHTLY FROM THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH.

AND IS THAT CORRECT? I THINK WE IDENTIFIED JOHNNY.

I DON'T HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME. OR DO WE HAVE THAT? OKAY. OKAY. ON THE SITE PLAN THAT WE JUST PROVIDED YOU, ARE YOU ASKING WHAT THE SETBACK IS ON THE NORTH SIDE RELATIVE TO THE PROPERTIES ADJACENT? YES. I APOLOGIZE, WE DON'T HAVE THAT. IF YOU'RE ASKING FROM FROM OUR NORTHERN TIP TO WHERE THAT STRUCTURE IS TO THE WELL, YEAH, THE PROPERTY LINE PART OF IT IS OUR GUIDELINES.

ASK THAT, YOU KNOW, A BUILDING NOT BE SET BACK, THAT IT BE CONSISTENT ON THE STREET FRONT SOMEWHAT COMMISSIONERS THE 50 FOOT PROPOSED FRONT SETBACK WOULD BE BEHIND THE STRUCTURE TO THE NORTH, BUT IT WOULD BE IN LINE WITH THE STRUCTURE TO THE SOUTH, AND THAT'S GREAT. OKAY.

THAT'S THAT'S REALLY THE WHAT I WANTED TO CONFIRM IS THAT WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, OFTEN STRIKING A LINE BETWEEN TWO OF THEM IS, IS KIND OF A GOOD PLACE TO START FOR LOCATING THE BUILDING.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S LOCATED IN THAT REGARD. REASONABLY WELL.

SO I THINK THE ONLY, THE ONLY THING COMMENT OR QUESTION I GUESS I COULD ASK IS THE ADDITION OF THOSE GARAGE WINDOWS IS WELCOME. THE WINDOWS THEMSELVES ARE THAT SORT OF HORIZONTAL.

YEAH. YOU KNOW THAT WE SEE IN BASEMENTS AND AWNING TYPE WINDOW VERSUS THE VERTICAL ORIENTATION OF EVERY OTHER WINDOW IN THE, IN THE BUILDING. AND COULD THAT BE CONSIDERED TO AT LEAST BE SQUARE IF NOT A VERTICAL RECTANGLE? YEAH, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. I THINK A LOT OF TIMES IT'S JUST PRIVACY IN THE GARAGE. IT IS. AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT.

YEAH. LOOK BUT IT DOES SORT OF CATCH YOUR EYE AND, AND IN THE PRIVACY CAN USUALLY BE HANDLED WITH EITHER A TYPE OF GLAZING

[00:50:03]

WOULD THAT TO ME, THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE. IT'D BE FINE.

SPACE THEM OUT. SO THERE'S SOME YOU'RE SAYING SO THAT YOU COULD KEEP THEM UP HIGHER AND NOT DROP THEM FOR SECURITY REASONS OR WHATEVER OTHER I THINK, I THINK THEN AT LEAST IT'S MEETING THE SORT OF IDEA THAT WE'RE BEING CONSISTENT WITH OUR WINDOWS, AS OPPOSED TO INTRODUCING KIND OF A SHAPE THAT DOESN'T.

YEAH. AND I DEFER TO OTHER COMMISSIONERS THOUGHTS ON THAT.

THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT.

MR. CHAIR I WAS WONDERING, ARE ANY SIGNIFICANT TREES BEING REMOVED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT? THERE ARE NO TREES ON THE SITE RIGHT NOW, AT LEAST, THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE REMOVING.

IT'S A IT'S A VACANT LOT. ANY TREES ARE ON THE PERIMETER OF THE SITE.

AND THIS IS AN INTERESTING CONCEPT TO HAVE. TWO HOMES, ONE IN THE FRONT, ONE IN THE BACK.

BUT I WAS WONDERING WHO GETS THE BACKYARD. WHO GETS THE WHO GETS THE BACKYARD? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU. WE DESIGNED IT THIS WAY INTENTIONALLY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE A DUPLEX.

AND SO WE REALLY THAT WAS THE WHOLE PREMISE OF WHY WE HAD KIND OF THE FRONT AND THE BACK WAS, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A WIDE ENOUGH LOT. I DIDN'T FEEL TO HAVE TWO UNITS THAT YOU'D PULL UP TO, BECAUSE REALLY ALL YOU'D HAVE IS GARAGE. AND SO THAT WAS OUR THAT WAS OUR INTENT AND THE LOTS DEEP ENOUGH TO PROVIDE FOR THE DRIVEWAYS AND THE IMPERVIOUS AND ALL THE THINGS THAT WE NEEDED TO MEET. SO. SO THESE WILL BE RENTAL.

ACTUALLY, MY SON'S GOING TO LIVE IN ONE SIDE AND MY DAUGHTER MAY LIVE IN THE OTHER, SO THAT WON'T BE FOREVER.

SO EVENTUALLY THEY PROBABLY WOULD BE RENTALS.

ARM WRESTLE OVER THE BACKYARD. ONE LAST QUESTION.

ON THE DRIVEWAY LOCATION. I GUESS FOR STAFF. ARE NEIGHBORS NOTIFIED OF THIS PROPOSAL? CHAIR COMMISSIONERS DESIGN REVIEW DOES NOT SUBJECT NOTICING REQUIREMENTS.

IF THE APPLICANT WERE TO SEEK ANY LAND USE APPROVALS THAT WERE OUTSIDE OF THAT WHICH IS PRESCRIBED FOR THE ARB DISTRICT THROUGH A VARIANCE OR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, NEIGHBORS WOULD BE NOTICED.

BUT THIS MEETS THE STRICT INTENT OF THE ARB TWO FAMILY ZONING DISTRICT AND THERE HAS NOT BEEN NOTICING TO DATE.

I JUST WONDER WHAT THE NEIGHBOR TO THE SOUTH WOULD THINK ABOUT THE DRIVEWAY, YOU KNOW, ALL ALONG THEIR NORTH PROPERTY LINE.

ONLY FIVE FEET AWAY. ALTHOUGH THEIR HOUSE IS PRETTY PRETTY FAR FROM THAT LOT LINE AND IT DOES MEET CODE.

TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, THE NORTH SIDE OF THEIR HOME IS ALSO THEIR GARAGE, SO IT ISN'T.

IT IS TRUE. YEAH. SO. THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE DRIVEWAY.

THERE'S A LOT OF SURFACE DRIVE IN THE PLAN. WHAT KIND OF MATERIAL ARE YOU THINKING FOR THAT? WE WERE JUST THINKING. ASPHALT. OKAY. IS IT.

SOMETHING THAT WOULD ALLOW A LITTLE BIT MORE PERMEABILITY. MIGHT BE GOOD FOR THE SITE.

PERVIOUS AREAS. WELL, UNDER WHAT THE REQUIREMENT IS FOR THE CITY, SO I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT THAT WE'VE DONE IMPERVIOUS ASPHALT BEFORE.

IT DOESN'T LAST AS LONG. IT'S HARD TO MAINTAIN OVER TIME.

IT FILLS UP, QUITE FRANKLY, AT FIVE, TEN YEARS FROM AFTER YOU PUT IT IN, IT'S IT'S IMPERVIOUS.

REALLY. JUST A COMMENT. MORE. YEAH. UNDERSTOOD.

I JUST WANTED TO. MR. CHAIR, THAT DOES LEND TO ANOTHER QUESTION.

DOES STILLWATER HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT IT BE A HARD SURFACE DRIVEWAY.

QUESTION FOR STAFF CHAIR COMMISSIONERS I BELIEVE THAT WE DO WE HAVE A NUMBER OF LAWFULLY NONCONFORMING DRIVEWAYS.

BUT WE WOULD CAN WE ALREADY CONSIDER COMPACTED DIRT AND GRAVEL TO BE IMPERVIOUS DUE TO ITS LACK OF INFILTRATION CAPACITY? AND IT'S, I BELIEVE IT TO BE IN CODE THAT A PAVED DRIVEWAY IS REQUIRED.

DIDN'T YOU SAY YOU CLASS FIVE ASPHALT. ASPHALT? YEAH. SORRY. WASN'T TRACKING. THANK YOU. YEAH, I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE THE

[00:55:10]

CAN YOU JUST TALK THROUGH A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT KIND OF WHAT? THE MATERIALS AND DESIGN OF THOSE? YEAH, IT'S JUST TO US, IT'S JUST GOING TO BE AN ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE.

MY EXPECTATION IS, IS THAT ROUGH, ALTHOUGH IT'S HARD TO SEE IN THESE DRAWINGS, IS GOING TO BE THE SAME.

ASPHALT TYPE MATERIAL ON THE TOP SURFACE WILL HAVE SOME TYPE OF STRUCTURE CARRYING THE WEIGHT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A CRAFTSMAN. LOOK TO IT, IF YOU WILL ON EITHER SIDE OF THE WINDOW CARRYING THAT AWNING.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE A WOOD FRAMED AWNING THAT'LL BE WRAPPED IN THE SAME MATERIAL AS THE REST OF THE HOME.

THANK YOU. A QUESTION ABOUT WINDOWS. I SEE YOU HAVE A MIX OF CASEMENTS AND DOUBLE HUNGS ARE THE DOUBLE HUNGS TO PROVIDE EGRESS OUT OF THEIR BEDROOMS? YES. OKAY. AND THEN A COMMENT ABOUT DRIVEWAYS.

AND IN A WAY, THIS ISN'T OUR PURVIEW, BUT JUST SOMETHING I NOTICED.

THERE'S A HAMMERHEAD TO TO TURN AROUND OUT OF THAT BACK GARAGE AND GET GOING THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

BUT IT LOOKS LIKE ONCE YOU PULL INTO THAT FRONT GARAGE.

GETTING BACK OUT OF THERE MAY BE TOUGH. YOU JUST MAY WANT TO TAKE A LOOK.

THANK YOU. YEAH. YEAH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? OKAY. THANK YOU. I MAY CALL YOU BACK IF WE HAVE MORE.

OKAY. APPRECIATE THAT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE'VE HEARD FROM THE APPLICANT.

WE'VE HEARD FROM STAFF. I WILL OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION AMONG THE COMMISSION.

AND JUST MY NOTES ARE I. I GUESS I APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM OUR FEEDBACK AT THE LAST MEETING.

I THINK WITH THAT INCORPORATED, IT CERTAINLY IMPROVES ITS APPEARANCE.

I THINK IT'S A IT'S CERTAINLY A UNIQUE LOT, AND STILLWATER IS FULL OF THEM.

AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE OF AN INFILL DEVELOPMENT THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST A GOOD EXAMPLE OF AN INFILL DEVELOPMENT ON MAYBE A CHALLENGING LOT.

AND ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT SOME OF THAT MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING, THOSE 2 TO 4 UNIT THAT, THAT THAT STILLWATER COULD CERTAINLY USE.

SO I THANK YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS TO MAKE, YOU KNOW, MAKE OUR FEEDBACK INCORPORATED ONTO YOUR PLANS.

ANY OTHER THOUGHTS FROM COMMISSIONERS? IT LOOKS TO ME AS THOUGH THIS IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCES AND THE GUIDELINES, AND I DO APPRECIATE THE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE IN RESPONSE TO OUR COMMENTS ON THE FIRST MEETING.

AND I THINK IT'S IT'S IMPROVED MARKEDLY. THE ONLY OTHER THING I NOTED AS I WAS LOOKING AT OUR, OUR GUIDELINES.

AND I APOLOGIZE, I FORGOT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS.

I MAY ASK YOU AGAIN IN A SECOND, BUT THESE ARE PROBABLY DETAILS WE CAN WORK OUT LATER WITH STAFF, BUT WE HAVE AMONG THE GUIDELINES AS THINGS TO JUST MINIMIZE THE IMPACT OF LIGHTING ON, ON NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

AND SO ASSUMING YOU'RE AMENABLE TO IT, I'D LIKE TO JUST INCORPORATE AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL WHAT'S IN OUR DESIGN GUIDELINES.

LET'S JUST MINIMIZE THE IMPACT OF EXTERIOR LIGHTING ON ADJACENT PROPERTIES.

USE RECESSED LIGHT FIXTURES OR SHIELDS, AVOID FLOOD LIGHTS AND NON SHIELDED POINT LIGHT SOURCES.

SO THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT EVERYONE'S DOING ANYHOW.

YEAH. BUT JUST KIND OF REFLECT THAT IN THE APPROVAL.

I WOULD AGREE WITH OTHERS THAT FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE CHANGES YOU MADE WERE VERY POSITIVE AND, AND AND I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE, THE TIME AND MAKING THIS DUPLEX LOOK LESS LIKE A DUPLEX.

SO I AM COMFORTABLE WITH WITH WHERE IT'S AT. IT SOUNDS LIKE I AM NOT HEARING OTHERWISE.

SO IF ANYBODY'S READY, PERHAPS SOMEBODY WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.

I'M GLAD TO DO THAT. I'LL, I'LL I'LL MOVE THAT.

WE APPROVE THE PROJECT PER THE STAFF MEMORANDUM WITH CONDITIONS ATTACHED.

IS THERE A SECOND? DOES THAT? JUST GOING BACK TO COMMISSIONER TUCSON'S COMMENT IS THAT INCLUDE THE LIGHTING AS AN ADDED

[01:00:03]

I'D BE GLAD TO TAKE THAT AS AN AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION.

I CAN MAKE THAT AFTER. AFTER WE GET A SECOND, I'LL MAKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.

I WILL SECOND THE MOTION. OKAY. MOTION BY HOLMES, SECOND BY MINO.

AND WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO ADD ONE ADDITIONAL CONDITION.

AND THIS IS JUST GETTING THE LANGUAGE OUT OF THE THE MANUAL HERE, BUT MINIMIZE THE IMPACT OF EXTERIOR LIGHTING ON ADJACENT PROPERTIES. USE RECESSED LIGHT FIXTURES OR SHIELDS, AVOID FLOODLIGHTS AND NON SHIELDED POINT LIGHT SOURCES.

ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT? YES. OKAY. SO THAT THAT IS INCORPORATED IN THE MOTION.

WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS. AND MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY TO GRANT APPROVE THE RESOLUTION GRANTING DESIGN APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR WORK ON THIS AND GOOD LUCK WITH THE PROJECT. OKAY, NEXT WE HAVE NOTHING UNDER NEW BUSINESS. AND WE HAVE THREE FYI II UNDER STAFF UPDATES.

[IX.4. 2025 Heritage Preservation Award Nominations]

JUST TO NOTE THAT WE HAVE THE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION AWARDS THAT WE'VE DECIDED TO BUMP, I THINK, TO THE SPRING AS THEY USED TO BE PREVIOUSLY, THE LAST FEW YEARS.

WE'VE DONE THEM IN THE FALL, BUT BUMPING THOSE BACK TO THE SPRING.

AND SO JUST WANTED TO MAKE PEOPLE AWARE AND START GENERATING IDEAS FOR NOMINATIONS, YOU KNOW, STAFF LISTED A FEW. AND I THINK 1 OR 2 PEOPLE HAVE OFFERED A FEW MORE.

SO IF WE WANTED TO JUST TAKE A MOMENT AND BRAINSTORM NOW, ANY THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO INCLUDE OR OBVIOUSLY OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS TO SHARE WITH, WITH STAFF AND GET A LIST GOING, BUT THAT'S WITH THAT AGENDA ITEM IS SO WITH THAT CHANGE IN TIMELINE, WE CAN HAVE A LITTLE MORE TIME TO COME UP WITH.

CORRECT. OKAY. ONE THING THAT I'LL NOTE I DON'T HAVE A NAME TO PUT FORWARD TONIGHT.

BUT THERE'S ONE I HAVE IN MIND OF SOMEBODY WHO I THINK WE MIGHT RECOGNIZE WHO HAS DONE A LOT FOR PRESERVATION OVER MANY YEARS.

GREAT. SO MAYBE SOME OTHER ONES LIKE THAT, IN ADDITION TO CASES THAT WE CONSIDER THIS YEAR, KIND OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE TO RECOGNIZE WHO, WHO WHO HAVE DONE A LOT TO PRESERVE STILLWATER.

ANY FEEDBACK FOR STAFF RIGHT NOW? OTHERWISE, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE CAN KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS.

BETWEEN NOW AND MAY. I WONDERED WHAT THE CATEGORIES ARE THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT.

I SEE THERE ARE A COUPLE LISTED ON HERE. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OTHER ONES ARE, AND TO BE HONEST, I DON'T EITHER. BUT MAYBE WE CAN SEND OUT A LIST OF THE CATEGORIES WE'VE USED IN THE PAST TO KIND OF JOG YOUR MEMORY AND SEE WHAT WHAT ONES MIGHT PLUG IN, I DON'T KNOW, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WHAT THOSE CATEGORIES HAVE BEEN. OKAY.

AND THEN I KNOW STAFF MENTIONS THAT THEY'RE MONITORING SEVERAL OTHER PROPERTIES ABOUT REGARDING WHETHER THEY'LL BE DONE OR NOT, BUT THERE WERE TWO AS I LOOKED BACK THROUGH SOME OF THE MATERIALS AND THAT I WOULD SUGGEST LOOKING AT, AND ONE WAS 324 MAIN STREET, THE TUCKPOINTING AND BRICK REPAIR AND WHERE THAT IS I THINK THAT IS WORTHY OF LOOKING AT IF THERE ARE DONE AND THE CARE THAT THEY'RE TAKING IN THAT BUILDING. AND THEN I WONDERED, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS WOULD FIT IN TERMS OF A, OF A CATEGORY, BUT THE PUBLIC ART PROJECT, THE UNION ALLEY AND THE CISTERN I THINK IT'S JUST BEEN A GREAT ADDITION TO DOWNTOWN.

AND IF WE COULD RECOGNIZE IT IN SOME WAY, I THINK WE SHOULD.

OKAY. I SENT THESE TO THE CITY STAFF AS WELL, BUT I HAD THAT ONE AS WELL.

I HAD 312 MAIN STREETS AND I HAD 112 AND THROUGH 126 SOUTH MAIN STREETS FACADE IMPROVEMENTS AND ADDITION OF SECOND FLOOR WINDOWS OR USAGE. THOSE ONES WERE OTHER DOWNTOWN PROJECTS I THOUGHT COULD BE CANDIDATES.

I HAVE ONE TO ADD TO THE LIST AS WELL. IT WOULD BE 112.

HARRIET. A SMALL VERNACULAR HOUSE THAT WAS READY TO FALL OVER, AND HALF OF IT HAD WHEN IT WAS PURCHASED AND NOW HAS BEEN REBUILT AND SOLD AND IS OCCUPIED AND RESCUED. SO AND I THINK CHRIS RUSTAD DID A GREAT JOB ON IT AND DESERVES RECOGNITION.

THANK YOU. CHAIR COMMISSIONERS FOR MY NOTES FOR EVERYONE WHO'S SPOKEN WITH A NOMINATION THUS FAR.

WILL YOU PLEASE REITERATE TO ME ONE TIME THE SPECIFIC ADDRESSES THAT YOU'VE MADE MENTION OF STARTING WITH COMMISSIONER RIJINO IF

[01:05:03]

YES. THANK YOU. YEAH. VICE CHAIR. HEIMDALL? SURE.

312 SOUTH MAIN STREET. AND I THINK THE APPROXIMATE ADDRESS IS 112 THROUGH 126 SOUTH MAIN STREET.

THANK YOU. YEP. YES. 112, 112. HARRIET. YEAH.

THANK YOU. COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

FOR CATEGORIES. I CAN'T REALLY THINK OF AN EXAMPLE.

WELL, I DO HAVE AN EXAMPLE. MIGHT NOT BE A GOOD ONE, BUT HISTORICAL EDUCATION.

OF COURSE, WASHINGTON COUNTY HISTORICAL SOCIETY DOES A GREAT JOB WITH THAT.

BUT HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN A TROLLEY RIDE FULL OF HISTORY? YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE THEY'RE THAT ACCURATE, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE MIGHT BE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS OUT THERE THAT ARE DOING A GREAT JOB.

SO JUST A THOUGHT AS WE'RE THINKING OF AWARDS AND CATEGORIES.

ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THE AWARDS? OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU ALL.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S SOME GREAT FEEDBACK FOR STAFF. MOVE ON THEN TO THE NEXT ITEM, WHICH IS THE THE THE TRAINING

[IX.5. 2026 Commission Assistance and Mentoring Program scheduling discussion5. 2026 Commission Assistance and Mentoring Program scheduling discussion]

YEAH. THEY'RE ALL ASKED TO BRING CALENDARS. YEAH.

THANK YOU. CHAIR. I THINK PREVIOUSLY YOU HAD TRIED TO FIND A DATE FOR THIS TO WORK.

I THINK LOOKING AT MAYBE JANUARY, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE COULDN'T FIND A GOOD DATE THAT WORKED FOR EVERYONE.

SO I THINK STAFF PUT OUT SOME SOME POLLS ABOUT WHAT MIGHT WORK.

KIND OF LOOKING AT A MARCH, APRIL, MAY TIME FRAME.

AND SO I'LL ASK YOU TO KIND OF COMPARE YOUR NOTES AND SEE WHAT, WHAT MIGHT WORK IN THAT, IN THAT RANGE.

AGAIN, LOOKING AT A THURSDAY AND FRIDAY DATE IN MARCH, APRIL, MAY IS KIND OF OUR TARGET AT THIS POINT.

THURSDAY OR FRIDAY. CORRECT. ONE OR THE OTHER.

CORRECT A ONE DAY. IT'S A ONE DAY. OKAY. OKAY.

OKAY. I HAVE A CONFLICT ON APRIL 3RD. FRIDAY, APRIL 3RD.

I, I HAVE CONFLICTS ON MARCH 19TH, 20 2627. APRIL 10TH.

AND APRIL 23RD, A THURSDAY.

HOW ABOUT MARCH 13TH? IT'S A FRIDAY. WORKS HERE. ARE WE ALL HERE? YEAH. OH, NO. WE'RE MISSING JOHN THOMPSON.

MAYBE IF WE CAN COME UP WITH A HANDFUL THAT WORK THEN AND WE'LL SEE FRIDAY THE THIRD RUN BY HIM IN THE MEETING.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE THAT WILL WORKS FOR EVERYBODY HERE IS FRIDAY MARCH 13TH.

HOW ABOUT THE OTHER THURSDAYS AND FRIDAYS? WE HAVEN'T ALREADY CROSSED OFF.

SO THAT WOULD BE THURSDAY THE FIFTH AND FRIDAY THE SIXTH.

DOES ANYONE HAVE A CONFLICT ON EITHER OF THOSE? I CANNOT DO THE FIFTH. OKAY. ANY CONFLICTS ON THE SIXTH? I CANNOT DO THE SIXTH. OKAY. HOW ABOUT THURSDAY THE 12TH? I CANNOT DO THAT. OKAY. SO THAT'S MARCH. MOVING ON TO APRIL.

HOW ABOUT THURSDAY, APRIL 9TH? AND STAFF, I SEE THERE ARE SOME COMMISSION MEETINGS ON HERE, SO PLEASE SPEAK UP IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT TAKES YOU ALL OUT OF OKAY.

ACCOUNT. AT THE MOMENT, IT SOUNDS LIKE THURSDAY, APRIL 9TH IS STILL VIABLE.

SO. UTILITIES COMMISSION? YEP. OKAY. LOOKING A WEEK OUT FROM THAT.

HOW ABOUT THURSDAY, THE 16TH OF APRIL? DOWNTOWN PARKING? YEAH, THAT WOULD BE FIRST THING IN THE MORNING.

[01:10:02]

IT MAY BE A SECOND TIER OPTION. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A CONFLICT ON THURSDAY THE 16TH? HOW ABOUT FRIDAY THE 17TH? I HAVE A CONFLICT, AS DO I.

OKAY. WE ALREADY RULED OUT FRIDAY THE OR THURSDAY THE 23RD.

HOW ABOUT FRIDAY? THE 24TH OF APRIL? I HAVE A CONFLICT.

OKAY. THURSDAY, THE 30TH OF APRIL. WORKS.

WORKS. RIGHT? OKAY. KEEP THAT ONE ON, THEN. AND THEN I THINK WE WERE ASKED TO LOOK AT MAY AS WELL.

SO FRIDAY, MAY 1ST I HAVE A CONFLICT. OKAY. THURSDAY, MAY 7TH.

SOUNDS LIKE THAT WOULD WORK. OKAY. FRIDAY, MAY 8TH.

I HAVE A CONFLICT. OKAY. THURSDAY, MAY 14TH. I HAVE A CONFLICT.

OKAY. FRIDAY, MAY 15TH. SOUNDS LIKE THAT.

SOUNDS LIKE A CONFLICT. I THINK SO. OKAY. TRYING TO THINK.

I'LL TAKE THAT ONE OUT. YEAH. OKAY. THURSDAY, MAY 21ST.

SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S AN OPTION. FRIDAY, MAY 22ND.

OKAY, WE'LL KEEP THAT ONE ON. AND THEN I THINK MEMORIAL DAY IS, IS THAT WEEKEND.

SO THAT MIGHT BE MAYBE NOT GREAT FROM THAT STANDPOINT.

THURSDAY, MAY 28TH.

I'M SORRY FOR THE LATE HIT. I JUST REALIZED I AM UNAVAILABLE APRIL 29TH THROUGH MAY 19TH.

OKAY SO WE'LL ADJUST THAT. OKAY. THURSDAY, MAY 28TH.

OKAY. WE'LL KEEP THAT. AND THEN LAST BUT NOT LEAST, FRIDAY, MAY 29TH.

I'LL KEEP THAT ONE TOO. SO BY MY ACCOUNT, THE REMAINING OPTIONS THEN ARE FRIDAY, MARCH 13TH.

THEN THURSDAY, APRIL 9TH. THURSDAY, APRIL 16TH. THURSDAY, MAY 21ST.

FRIDAY, MAY 22ND. THURSDAY, MAY 28TH.

AND FRIDAY, MAY 29TH. OKAY.

HOPEFULLY ONE OF THOSE WILL WORK OUT. ANYTHING ELSE ON ON THAT TOPIC? NOPE. OKAY. AND THEN THE LAST ONE HERE WAS COMMISSION CALENDAR UPDATE.

[IX.6. 2026 Commission Calendar Update]

SO I THINK YOU ARE YOU ARE SET. OR MAYBE AT THE END OF THE YEAR, I THINK WE BUMP UP A WEEK FROM THE THE FOURTH TO THE THIRD WEDNESDAYS, AS WE DID THIS YEAR. SO BUT BUT OTHERWISE IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

SO JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT. SO YOU HAVE YOUR CALENDAR FOR 26.

MR. CHAIR, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A NOTE AND IT IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL JUST POINTING IT OUT THAT THE HPC MEETING DOESN'T CONFLICT WITH ANY OF THE HOLIDAYS IN NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER YET WE'RE ASKED TO, YOU KNOW, RESCHEDULE OUR MEETINGS.

IT JUST THROWS ME OFF. I HAVE A STANDING MEETING ON THE SECOND WEDNESDAY OF THE MONTH NOW, AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL. JUST POINTING OUT I WONDER WHY.

COMMISSIONER. THE REASON IS THAT THE SAME STAFF THAT CHAIRS THIS COMMISSION ALSO CHAIRS THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHICH MEETS ON WEDNESDAY, ONE WEEK FOLLOWING HPC.

SO THAT PLANNING COMMISSION DOES CONFLICT WITH THE HOLIDAYS, THOUGH YOUR MEETING DOES NOT.

SO WE CAN'T HOST BOTH ON THE SAME EVENING AND HPC GETS BUMPED UP TO ACCOMMODATE PLANNING'S CONFLICT WITH BOTH THANKSGIVING AND

[01:15:10]

BEING ONLY TWO WEEKS PRIOR TO ITS. WE CAN BRING YOUR CONCERN UP WITH.

IT'S NOT A CONCERN. IT'S JUST LIKE, HEY, WHAT'S UP WITH THAT? IT'S ONE OF THOSE DEALS. YEAH. WHY ARE WE INCONVENIENCED? JUST SAYING. ONE THING I'LL NOTE. JUST LOOKING AT THE THE CALENDAR IN THE PACKET.

IT LOOKS LIKE IN NOVEMBER WE'RE WE'RE BUMPED TO A THURSDAY INSTEAD OF A WEDNESDAY BECAUSE OF VETERAN'S DAY.

YEAH. BECAUSE IT'S A HOLIDAY. YEAH. SO I THINK.

SO YOUR YOUR CONFLICT PROBABLY JUST WILL AFFECT US IN DECEMBER NEXT YEAR.

SECOND WEDNESDAY. BUT THANKS FOR THANKS FOR. THANK YOU.

MY MEETING WILL ALSO BE BUMPED ON MY STANDING MEETING.

AGAIN IT'S SILLINESS. I JUST LIKE TO POINT THINGS OUT THOUGH.

THANK YOU. BECAUSE I'VE BEEN TOLD I'M THE QUESTION LADY.

SO THERE'S YOUR QUESTION OF THE DAY. I JUST HAD ONE UPDATE.

THE THE THREE OF US WHO ARE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THE REVISITING THE GUIDELINES MANUAL HAVE MET A COUPLE OF TIMES. WE'RE KIND OF WRAPPING OUR HEADS AROUND IT, I WOULD SAY, AT THIS POINT AND WORKING ON YOU KNOW, NOTING SOME THINGS THAT MAYBE HAVE CHANGED SINCE IT WAS PUBLISHED OR THINGS THAT WERE, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT SEE OPPORTUNITIES WHERE THERE'S SOMETHING WHERE EVERYBODY HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.

IS THERE A CLEARER WAY WE COULD SAY IT? AND THEN MAYBE A COUPLE OF IDEAS ABOUT THE WAYS THAT THE DOCUMENT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, EASIER TO USE AND QUICKER TO, TO OPEN UP AND ACCESS AND MORE, MORE USER FRIENDLY.

SO WE'LL BE COMING FIRST TO STAFF TO BOUNCE SOME IDEAS OFF OF THEM AND THEN HOPEFULLY BRING IT BACK TO THE FULL COMMISSION.

AFTER THAT. GREAT. SOMETIME IN THE NEW YEAR. MR. CHAIR, IS THIS GROUP ALSO, HAVE YOU KIND OF REVIEWED THE MURAL GUIDELINES THAT A PREVIOUS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW WE WILL. YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU.

YEP. YEP. AND TRYING TO TRACK DOWN A COPY OF THE WORK THAT YOU GUYS DID ON THAT.

OH, YEAH. WE'LL SEND YOU THAT. YEAH. THANK YOU.

YEP. ANYTHING ELSE? TWO. TWO QUICK ITEMS. CHAIR.

[Additional Item]

SO IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A MEETING JUST TO LOOK AT YOU KNOW, DESIGN REVIEW CHANGES, WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT.

OTHERWISE WE COULD JUST WAIT UNTIL FEBRUARY. BUT RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE NO APPLICATIONS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED IN JANUARY.

SO OKAY, LAST TIME THIS CAME UP, SOMEBODY SAID THAT WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THOSE QUIET MONTHS AND TAKE ON, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE SUBSTANTIVE TOPICS THAT WE AREN'T ABLE TO GET TO WHEN WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS BEFORE US, BUT ARE THERE THOUGHTS ON THAT? OKAY. I THINK IT'S I THINK IT'S A GOOD WAY TO UTILIZE THE TIME IF THERE'S SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT MAKES SENSE FOR US TO MEET AND DISCUSS.

LET'S TENTATIVELY KEEP IT MAYBE, AND THEN SEE THE STAFF MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO BRING FORWARD AS WELL.

SO WE'LL WE'LL TENTATIVELY KEEP IT ON THERE. BUT WE'LL WATCH THAT.

THAT SOUNDS GOOD. AND THEN JUST THE SECOND THING TO MENTION, I BELIEVE NOT THE NEXT COUNCIL MEETING, BUT MAYBE THE FIRST ONE IN JANUARY, THERE MAY BE AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA THAT SHAUN SANDERS IS GOING TO BRING FORWARD TO THE COUNCIL TO GET FEEDBACK.

WE'VE BEEN WORKING, TALKING WITH THE ARCHITECT AND ALSO ABOUT THE BERGSTEIN SHODDY MILL PROJECT MUDDLING THROUGH, JUST TRYING TO GET SOME CLEAR DIRECTION SO THAT WE CAN BRING TO YOU SOME ACTUAL DESIGNS TO REVIEW.

AND THERE SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF UNCERTAINTY AT THIS POINT BETWEEN HAVING A HOW THE COUNCIL WANTS TO UTILIZE THAT BUILDING, HAVING A MORE OPEN SPACE ON THAT LOWER LEVEL FACING THE RIVER, WHICH WOULD, YOU KNOW, GO ONE WAY WITH THE DESIGN AND MAYBE WHAT SHIPPO IS ENCOURAGING WITH MORE KIND OF CONTAINED SPACE. SO I THINK WE HAVE SOME, SOME SKETCHES AND CONCEPTS, AND I THINK SHAUN WANTS TO BRING THOSE TO THE COUNCIL TO GET CONFIRMATION ON WHAT THEY WOULD PREFER. AND FROM THERE, WE CAN ACTUALLY WORK UP A DESIGN THAT WE CAN COME TO YOU AND GET REACTION TO AND ALSO TAKE

[01:20:06]

SO IF YOU SEE SOMETHING ON THE AGENDA, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

IT'S WE'RE NOT CIRCUMVENTING YOU. IT'S JUST NEEDING SOME MORE DIRECTION BEFORE WE TAKE ANYTHING TOO FAR.

OKAY, GREAT. AS I RECALL, LAST TIME WE SAW IT, WHICH WAS A WHILE AGO AND PROBABLY HAS CHANGED SINCE, BUT THE SAME ISSUE WAS THERE WAS THAT THE ORIGINAL BUILDING.

WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE SHODDY MILL LOOKS LIKE IS A VERY SORT OF OPAQUE AND CLOSED BUILDING.

RIGHT. AND THEN SO IT'S THE DEGREE TO WHICH IT CAN BE USED AND AND STILL MAINTAIN ITS INTEGRITY ITS HISTORIC INTEGRITY. SOME OF THE I REMEMBER SOME OF THE PROPOSALS WE SAW A FEW, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY SORT OF OPENED UP TO THE OUTSIDE AND INSIDE THE RIVER SIDE OF THE BUILDING.

AND I IMAGINE THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE SHIP WAS HAVING SOME ISSUES AS OPPOSED TO, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO CONTAIN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THE SOLIDITY OF THE BUILDING AND PERFORATED AS NEEDED BY WINDOWS, BY OPENINGS AND THAT SORT OF THING.

BUT I REMEMBER ONE OF THE ISSUES I PERSONALLY HAD AN ISSUE WITH, ONE OF THE VERSIONS WHICH SORT OF JUST CUT IT ALL AWAY.

AND AND I HOPE. I THINK THERE'S A RESOLUTION IN THERE SOMEWHERE AND I HOPE THEY CAN WORK TOWARDS THAT.

YEAH, I WOULD SAY THAT VERSION YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS KIND OF OFF THE TABLE. AND WE'RE KIND OF NARROWING ON WHAT, YOU KNOW, A SMALLER RANGE OF OPTIONS. ONE INTERESTING THING I SAW IN THE LAST ARCHITECT'S IDEA WAS IF YOU COULD HAVE MAYBE SOME PANELS OR THINGS THAT WHEN THEY'RE IN PLACE, KEEP IT VERY ENCLOSED, BUT YOU COULD REMOVE THEM ON SLIDING DOORS OR AWNINGS OR SOMETHING THAT COULD OPEN IT UP TEMPORARILY.

SO THERE MAY BE SOME KIND OF COMPROMISE THAT WE CAN GET TO, TO KIND OF SATISFY BOTH SIDES.

SO WE'RE WORKING ON IDEAS. SURE. GOOD. AND, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THIS IS A CONVERSATION YOU GUYS ARE HAVING TOO.

BUT JUST THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE USE OF THE SPACE AND IF IT IS OPEN, IF THAT ENCOURAGES FOLKS, IF THAT ENCOURAGES UNWANTED ATTENTION WHEN IT'S NOT IN USE.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE GOES TO THE COUNCIL IN EARLY JANUARY, THEN PROBABLY BACK TO THE ARCHITECTS FOR SOME ITERATIONS AND THEN TO US SOMETIME FEBRUARY, HOPEFULLY. YEAH, I KNOW WE WANT TO GET THINGS MOVING, SO.

OKAY. THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE? MR. CHAIR, COULD I BRING UP ONE ITEM, PLEASE? AND THAT IS THE 2026 STREET PROJECT, WHICH THE CITY OF STILLWATER IS UNDERTAKING, WHICH IS ON THE NORTH HILL ONCE AGAIN IN HISTORICAL DISTRICT A NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICT.

AND WE HEARD BEFORE US A FEW MEETINGS AGO A HOMEOWNER WITH CONCERNS ABOUT THIS YEAR'S STREET PROJECT AND HOW IT IMPACTED HER HISTORICAL HOME.

AND WE DISCUSSED POSSIBILITY OR AT LEAST I BROUGHT IT UP OF WHEN THEY WHEN THEY THE CITY DOES A STREET PROJECT TO AT LEAST DO SOME SORT OF HISTORICAL REVIEW OF YOU KNOW WHAT IS WHAT IS IN THAT AREA.

ONE EXAMPLE I GAVE WAS A COUPLE YEARS AGO, I NOTICED THEY WERE DOING A ROAD IMPROVEMENT ON FOURTH STREET IN ON THE NORTH HILL.

AND THERE WAS A STRUCTURE. IT WAS A HISTORICAL STRUCTURE THAT DISAPPEARED.

AND I CONTACTED THE PLANNER AND I SAID THAT WHATEVER THAT WAS, IT WAS REALLY COOL.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS, BUT THE PLANNER TRACKED IT DOWN.

IT WAS AN OLD HORSE TROUGH. AND SO THEN THEY BROUGHT IT BACK AND RELOCATED IT IN THAT EXACT.

IT'S JUST THE BASE OF THE HORSE TROUGH. SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON THIS PROJECT, WHICH IS JUST HICKORY STREET, MAINLY ON THE NORTH HILL, WHICH HAPPENS TO BE THE STREET I LIVE ON.

SO I'M NOT SURE THERE'S ANYTHING BESIDES THE HISTORIC HOMES, BUT IS THAT A CONVERSATION THE CITY CAN HAVE, YOU KNOW, ABOUT REVIEWING. YOU KNOW, THERE'S OLD HISTORICAL REFERENCES.

WE WE DID A A NEIGHBORHOOD STUDY THERE ON THE NORTH HILL, AND THERE COULD BE SOME REFERENCES OF THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO WATCH OUT FOR AS WE'RE. OH, AND ANOTHER THING IS THE THE OLD LIMESTONE CURBS.

I JUST ALWAYS THOUGHT, GOSH, THEY'RE PULLING OUT THESE BEAUTIFUL LARGE LIMESTONE CURBS.

AND THEN THEY OFFER THEM TO THE RESIDENTS AND MANY TAKE THEM, BUT THEY'RE SO THEY'RE SO LARGE.

AND I WONDER, WHERE DO THEY GO? THEY JUST SEEM LIKE A VALUABLE RESOURCE.

[01:25:02]

REVIEW OF IMPACTS ON, ON HISTORIC RESOURCES AS A RESULT OF, OF PUBLIC PROJECTS.

I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW YEAH. AN IMPACT REVIEW.

YEAH. I MEAN, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR THIS IS, BUT I'M THINKING TO COMMISSIONER WAS SAYING, LIKE THE MYRTLE STREET PROJECT, THERE'S QUITE A FEW OF THOSE HISTORIC LIMESTONE WALLS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PLANS ARE FOR THOSE REGARDING THE OVERALL PROJECT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT AND HAVE INPUT IN ON THESE PROJECTS, OR AT LEAST WE SHOULD IF IT AFFECTS THEM. YEAH.

AND I WAS ALWAYS HOPING MAYBE SOMEDAY STILLWATER WILL HAVE A LIVING STREETS POLICY OF SORTS.

I WAS CONCERNED THAT THE PREVIOUS STREET PROJECT, THEY WEREN'T REPLACING TREES THAT WERE BEING REMOVED, BUT THEN I SAW A LOT OF TREES BEING REPLACED, SO I'M NOT QUITE SURE, BUT THAT THAT'S NOT IN OUR PREVIEW, BUT JUST COMMENTS ABOUT HOW WE HANDLE THE STREET PROJECT AND THE POSSIBILITY OF, I DON'T KNOW THAT OUR COMMISSION HAS TO BE INVOLVED.

MAYBE IT'S A STAFF PERSON JUST KIND OF REVIEWING.

I'M NOT SURE. I DON'T WANT TO PUT STAFF ON THE ON THE POINT HERE BECAUSE IT WASN'T ON THE PLANNING TO COVER TONIGHT, BUT MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING THEY CAN TAKE AND CONTEMPLATE AND MAYBE COME BACK TO US ABOUT IT AT SOME POINT.

YEAH, WELL, WE'LL TALK TO OUR ENGINEERING TEAM AND KIND OF THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

AND YEAH, BEFORE WE GET TO THE NEXT ROUND, WE CAN COME BACK TO YOU.

THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE THIS EVENING? OKAY.

WANT TO MAKE A MOTION? I MOVE TO ADJOURN. SECOND.

MOTION BY LARSON. SECOND BY FINN. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. MOTION PASSES. WE ARE ADJOURNED AT 828.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.