Jun 24, 2026 Planning Commission

[I. CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:12]

MEETING OF THIS ORDER PLAN, WE ARE MISSING COMMISSIONERS FOR SWANSON, BUT OTHERWISE EVERYONE

[III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]

AND THOSE ARE LEADING TO. SO SEVERAL OF THOSE WITHIN AND GET THOSE CLEANED UP. OTHER THAN THAT, ARE THERE ANY OTHER. CHANGES, ADDITIONS, CORRECTIONS SEEING NONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING I. THOSE OPPOSED AND ANY ABSTENTIONS? OKAY. SO WITH THAT WE'LL MOVE

[IV. OPEN FORUM – Public may address the Commission on non-agenda items. Please limit remarks to 5 minutes or less.]

[2. Case No. CD2026-030: Interim Use Permit Request for Seasonal Outdoors Sales at 807 4th Street North (Staff Reviewer: Jason Zimmerman, 651-430-8821, jzimmerman@stillwatermn.gov)]

MOST OF THE TRAYS AND UTENSILS THAT COME. FOOTBALL, BUT GENERALLY WOULD USE A GENERATOR AND THE DECIBEL LEVEL IS 61, WHICH IS FOR MOST OF US TO HAVE THAT IS ABOVE THE EQUIVALENT OF A NORMAL CONVERSATION. AT THREE FEET AWAY WAS THE SON OF YOUR REFRIGERATOR. UNTIL WE FIND A BACKUP OPTION, YOU KNOW THE EXTENSION CORD. BUT I THINK AT THIS VOLUME LEVEL, BUT ACCEPTABLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, ALL SIGNAGE IS TO HAVE NO ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE. AND SO A LITTLE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH WITH IUPS FOR INSTANCES, THERE'S REALLY FOUR STANDARDS THAT ARE ARIZONA. ONE IS THAT IT HAS TO MEET OUR ZONING REGULATIONS OF THAT DISTRICT HAS TO BE ALLOWED IN THIS DISTRICT FOR A PERMIT, A DATE, CERTAIN TERMINATION IS OUR ONE YEAR PERMITS. SO WE TERMINATE IT IS RENEWED ANNUALLY. ALWAYS USE WOULD BE ANTICIPATED. HAVING ADDITIONAL COSTS TO THE CITY WERE TO NEED TO TAKE THIS LAND FOR SOMETHING ELSE. THAT'S NOT THE CASE HERE. AND THEN WOULD BE ANY OTHER ASSOCIATED CONDITIONS. AND THERE ARE A FEW IN THE RESOLUTION THAT ARE ADJUSTED IN THAT APPLICANT TO ALL OF THOSE.

SO THE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS WORK CONDITIONS ON THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THE FOR THIS TRAILER HAS TO BE UPDATED BEFORE BEING PERMITTED IN 2026. THEY ALREADY HAVE THEIR APPROVALS IN WASHINGTON COUNTY. HOUSEHOLD HAS BEEN INSPECTED AND APPROVED. IF IT CHANGES TO

[00:05:07]

YOU CAN CERTAINLY CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE. I THINK, FROM A PREVIOUS PERSPECTIVE. AND JUST SAYING THAT IT CAN BE ADMITTEDLY EVERY YEAR, IF YOU'D LIKE TO BE MORE CLEAR, SAY ONE YEAR AND BE RENEWED ADMINISTRATIVELY, YOU CAN CERTAINLY CHANGE. AND THEN THE SECOND QUESTION, SO THE PROPOSAL TO PARK ON THE STREET. AND REVIEW THIS. AND DON'T THEY NEED A SPECIAL PARKING PERMIT FOR WORKS STAFF CAN ISSUE. REQUIRES THAT BELIEVE SO I KNOW IT WAS DIFFERENT FOR OUR DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL BUSINESS DISTRICT VERSUS THIS AREA. WE CAN CONFIRM IF THEY NEED TO GET REVIEW AND FOR PUBLIC WORKS HAVE THEM DO THAT. AND I DON'T THINK IT DOES REQUIRE A PARKING ALONG THE STREET. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I JUST WONDERING JUST ON LOCATION WISE, I KNOW I'M DOING A STREET PARKING AND THE IDEA IS TO BE IN FRONT OF THE BUSINESS. AND TYPICALLY IN THE PAST, IS THERE EVER ANY. RECOMMENDATIONS OF HOW FAR IT MUST BE FROM THE BUSINESS, NORMAL SIDE OF THE STREET OR ANYTHING ALONG THOSE LINES? TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WE HAVEN'T HAD THOSE KINDS OF CONDITIONS. I DO KNOW THAT. THE CAN'T BLOCK BECAUSE THEY HAVE IN THEIR APPLICATION SHOWN THERE'S TWO DOORS AND THEY'LL BE PARKING OUTSIDE OF THOSE. SO IT'S JUST TO THE SOUTH OF THAT BUILDING THAT IS PART OF THE APPLICATION THAT WE WOULD BE HOLDING THEM TO. OKAY. THANK YOU.

IT WAS. THE NORTH NORTH. THERE IS A IN THE HOUSE, BUT IT'S KIND OF A COMMERCIAL HOUSE BACK IN THERE TOO. SO IT'S RESIDENTIAL HOME. YEAH. IT GIVES YOU A POSITIVE.

CERTAINLY ADD THAT PART TO THE SOUTH IN FRONT OF THAT THAT THE RESIDENTIAL THAT MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER THAT I DON'T KNOW, I LOVE I DON'T WHILE I. FURTHER DOWN. I KNOW THAT THE BUSINESS

[00:10:11]

[3. Comprehensive Plan Conversation – Housing]

EVERYONE, SOME OF THE ISSUES AROUND HOUSING THAT ARE IN FRONT OF US. CAN USE.

ABOUT THE HOUSING. YEAH, GREAT. SO JEFF MILLER, AS WITH HCD PLANNER. 20 YEARS AND I WILL BE THE PROJECT MANAGER AND THE CONSULTANT SIDE WORKING WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE FOR STILLWATER. AS YOU CAN SEE, I DON'T THINK HE PRESENTATION ON LAND USE SPECIFICALLY. THE INTENT IS FOR US TO PROVIDE HOUSING. THIS IS OUR FIRST MEETING WITH YOU.

SOME OF THE PROJECT TEAM WORKING IN COLLABORATION WITH CITY STAFF, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES.

[00:15:15]

SO WE'RE A SMALL FIRM LOCATED IN MINNEAPOLIS. WE HAVE WORKED THE CITY . PRESERVATION OVER THE. YEARS. SO WE KNOW. ALL RIGHT, SO I'M GOING TO BRIEFLY TALK ABOUT THE HOUSING OVERVIEW, BUT THERE'S A FOUNDATIONAL COMPONENT TO HOUSING. DEVIN. SO THAT'S THE CURRENT HOUSING CHAPTER IN THE 2040 PLAN HAS FOUR SECTIONS.

AND THE INTRODUCTION FOLSOM OBJECTIVES HOUSING AFFORDABILITY AND IMPLEMENTATION. AND THESE ITEMS WERE ACQUIRED AS PART OF THE PLANNING GET A LITTLE BIT DEEPER SPECIFICALLY FROM THE ZONING MAP, BECAUSE THIS IS SPECIFICALLY HOW PROPERTIES ARE CURRENTLY USED IN THE CITY TODAY. IT IS GENERALIZED. SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING AROUND IDENTIFYING EACH PROPERTY. BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, A MAJORITY OF THE COMMUNITY IS EXISTING RESIDENTIAL ONE. SO THAT'S 85% OF THE CITY. AND THE REMAINING 50% ARE TWO OR MORE RESIDENTIAL UNITS AND A RESIDENTIAL MISCELLANEOUS. SO JUST AROUND SINGLE USE AS AND RESIDENTIAL ONE UNIT, TYPICALLY SINGLE FAMILY ONLY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.

RESIDENTIAL UNITS INCLUDE DUPLEXES, TWIN HOMES, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WITH APARTMENTS OR ONE APARTMENT, AND THEN THE UNIT CATEGORY INCLUDES TOWNHOMES, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WITH TWO APARTMENTS AND SMALL APARTMENT BUILDINGS. THE FOURTH CATEGORY IS THAT HIGHER DENSITY TOWNHOMES, APARTMENTS AND CONDOMINIUMS. SO YOU DO HAVE A RANGE OF CATEGORIES IN THE EXISTING ENTITIES, BUT THE MAJORITY IS THAT RESIDENTIAL UNIT AT THIS TIME. SO THE FUTURE LAND USE IS A MORE GUIDING MAP THAT GUIDE THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT AND PATTERNS OF THE CITY. SO AS YOU CAN SEE, IF YOU COMPARE BOTH EXISTING AND FUTURE LAND USE MAP, THERE'S A LOT MORE COLORS ON IT IN TERMS OF FOR THE RESIDENTIAL CATEGORIES, YOU CAN SEE THAT MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL KIND OF EXPANDING MORE WESTWARD INTO THE COMMUNITY AND COMMUNITIES TO TRY TO EXPAND THOSE CATEGORIES INTO THE COMMUNITY SO THAT THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY. AND AS YOU GROW AND CHANGE, YOU DO WANT TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL AREAS FOR ADDITIONAL HOUSING TYPES, IDENTITIES. SO I'M ASSUMING THAT YOU GUYS ARE FORWARD THINKING IN THAT MANNER. SO YOU CAN SEE ON THIS CHART, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE VARIETY PERCENTAGE OF THE FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORY. SO LOW DENSITY IS 52%, BUT THE LOW MEDIUM DENSITY CATEGORY IS THAT SECOND HIGHEST AT 34%. AND THEN THE REMAINING CATEGORIES THAT MAKE UP THE

[00:20:01]

DENSITY RESIDENTIAL IS 6 TO 14.5 UNITS PER ACRE WITH TOWNHOMES, SMALL SCALE APARTMENTS ANTICIPATED FOR THOSE HOUSING TYPES IN THOSE AREAS. HIGH DENSITY. THE HIGHEST CLASS IS THE 12 TO 25 UNITS PER ACRE. WE'RE ALSO PLANNING DEVELOPMENT AS THE OPPORTUNITY THAT YOU SEE THOSE DENSITIES. SO THESE ARE A LOT OF CATEGORIES. WE DO SEE KIND OF CITIES CHANGE IN, YOU KNOW, EITHER COMBINING OR ADDING CATEGORIES IN THEIR, YOU KNOW, UPDATE. SO THAT IS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER AS WE GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF. CATEGORIES. SO THESE DENSITIES WILL RESONATE. THAT'S WHAT I THINK ABOUT. SO NOW WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT HOUSING A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. SO THAT WAS THE LAND USE CHAPTER. SO FOR THE HOUSING CHAPTER WAS KIND OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF WHAT'S YOUR CURRENT PLAN, WHICH WILL BE UPDATED AS WE UPDATE THE WHOLE PLAN. SO THERE ARE FOUR GOALS IN THERE. YOU CAN SEE KIND OF ALLUDED TO SOME OF THESE THINGS, BUT THE FIRST ONE ABOUT HAVING A RANGE OF HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES. SO YOU SAW MOST OF THE LAND IS SINGLE FAMILY ONLY SOMETHING WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF KINDS OF PLANS AND IT'S ZONING DISTRICTS AS WELL THAT. JUST 1% OF CITY'S LAND USE ZONING ALLOWS ONLY ONE TYPE OF HOUSING. SCHOOL. IS THAT THE GOAL IN THE CURRENT PLAN WAS TO EXPAND THAT RANGE. THE SECOND ONE IS ADD THAT TO A DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES AND DENSITY. SO A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFIC. AND THEN GETTING THAT WHAT'S CALLED STYLE HOUSING AND CALL THAT I THINK SAFE HOUSING. SO FOR PEOPLE OF ALL AGES, FAMILIES AND PEOPLE THAT WANT TO START AT HOME ALL THE WAY UP TO TWO YEARS SMALLER HOUSING AS WELL. AND THEN THE THIRD ONE IS ABOUT.

PRIMARILY COMMUNITY HOUSING. SO THERE ARE. THEY PROBABLY TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT LAND, BUT THERE IS A PROJECTION FOR POPULATION HEALTH GOALS FOR STILLWATER OVER THE NEXT 20 YEARS THAT WITH THIS UPDATE AND THE LAST ONE'S, YOU KNOW, TALKING MOSTLY ABOUT RENTAL HOUSING AND. BEING ABLE TO HAVE BOTH OF THOSE BEING DEVELOPED IN THE FUTURE.

AND THE THING THAT'S IN THERE AS FAR AS SOME STILLWATER'S CURRENT. SO THIS IS IN THE CURRENT LAND, BUT IT LOOKED AT THE PERCENTAGE OF OWNER VERSUS OCCUPIED UNITS IN THE CITY. YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT TIME. AND ALSO THE AGE OF HOUSING. SO YOU CAN SEE THAT A LOT, A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF HOUSING IS OLDER. SO, YOU KNOW, I CAN GET AT ONE

[00:25:02]

IS TO LOOK AT HOW MUCH LAND HOUSIND THEN TOOLS TO ACHIEVE MEETING THOSE NEEDS. AND THEN. IN ADDITION TO TRADITIONAL TOOLS FOR HOUSING DEVELOPMENT. ABILITY, THE UPDATE WILL LOOK AT AREA MEDIAN INCOME. AND YOU CAN SEE THE NUMBERS HERE THAT APPLY TO THE WITH THE.

MINNEAPOLIS-SAINT PAUL BLOOMINGTON MSA AND THE. THE BRACKETS ARE 33% OR LOWER, 31 TO 50, 51 TO 60, AND THEN 61 TO 80. AND YOU CAN SEE WHAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE AS FAR AS AVERAGE MEDIAN INCOME IN THE TWIN CITIES FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR. THE CURRENT PLAN HAS THE PROJECTIONS FOR HOUSEHOLDS, WHICH IS WHICH IS USED TO GET HOW MANY HOUSING UNITS ARE NEEDED. SO IN THE CURRENT PLAN, IT WAS SHOWING 2020 AND 2030, 600, 600 HOUSING. NEEDED. AND

[00:30:10]

AND THEN THOSE ARE DISTRIBUTED. WITHIN THOSE BANDS BELOW 30%, BELOW 50, BELOW 60, WHICH IS A CHANGE FROM THE LAST TIME AROUND. THE THERE WAS AN ALLOCATION AT THE 80 AMY LEVEL LEVEL, BUT THAT A LOT MORE OF THE HOUSING WAS BEING DEVELOPED AND THERE WAS VERY LITTLE BEING DEVELOPED AT THE LOWER END WHERE IT'S NEEDED. SO THIS TIME AROUND, ARE REALLY SOME OF THOSE LOWER BANDS INSTEAD OF THE HIGHER ONE. DEFINING AFFORDABILITY OF THE HOUSING IS CONSIDERED AFFORDABLE. IF ALL DOESN'T NEED TO SPEND 30% OF THEIR GROSS INCOME ON HOUSING.

AND, YOU KNOW, LOW AND MODERATE INCOMES ARE DRIVEN BY THOSE NUMBERS THAT WE WERE JUST SHOWING. AND THEN THE AFFORDABILITY DEFINITIONS, DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS OUT THERE.

SOME ARE RELATED TO PUBLIC HOUSING. SECTION EIGHT. SO EMERGENCY HOUSING AND IT'S OFF TO WORK FOR HOUSING. THOSE STANDARDS ARE GETTING AT THAT PRETTY EXPLICITLY. THOSE PMI NUMBERS. SO ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS TO HAVE ENOUGH LAND, A MINIMUM DENSITY. SO THEY'VE IDENTIFIED THE REQUIREMENTS TO OPTIONS COULD USE. THE FIRST ONE IS TEN UNITS PER ACRE. AND THAT 39 UNITS BUT STILL HAS IN THEIR SYSTEM STATEMENT THERE HAS TO BE ENOUGH LAND OR MORE TO ACCOMMODATE 339 UNITS. THE OTHER OPTION IS TO SPLIT THAT UP, AND YOU CAN DO. A PLAN THAT CAN BREAK YOUR HEIGHT THAN SOMEONE THAT YOU. AND SO THAT WOULD THAT UP INTO A, YOU KNOW. SOME IT WOULD SPLIT IT UP. SEVERAL WOULD BE AT TEN UNITS, SOME COULD BE AT A LOWER EIGHT UNITS PER ACRE, AND THEN LESS OF IT WOULD BE UP TO 12. AND.

SO KIND OF GET YOUR TAKE THE PULSE ON YOUR, YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT EXPANDING ACCESS TO HOUSING TYPES IN THE COMP PLAN.

[00:35:04]

ONE THING WE WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT WAS THAT THERE HAVE BEEN NO AFFORDABLE UNITS THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT IN STILLWATER SINCE THE 24 PLAN HAS BEEN ADOPTED. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION TONIGHT TO SEE IF THERE IS ANY OPPORTUNITY TO POTENTIALLY EXPAND THOSE LAND USE, LAND USE AREAS TO OTHER HOUSING TYPES. I COULD POSSIBLY GET AT SOME OF THE MET COUNCIL REQUIREMENTS OF SOME TYPICAL TIMES I WILL SEE AGAIN ARE SINGLE FAMILY TOWNHOME AND APARTMENTS, BUT WE WILL TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT STILL FIT IN WITHIN THOSE, YOU KNOW, TYPICAL HOUSING TYPES OR DEVELOPED PHYSICALLY AS THOSE TYPES, BUT ARE ACTUALLY MORE UNITS. SOME OF THOSE PRACTICES THAT WE THINK ABOUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT EXPANDING HOUSING TYPES IS MIXING HOUSING IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT COULD BE MORE DUPLEXES, FAMILY, NEIGHBORHOOD, OR SMALL APARTMENT ON THE EDGES OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS NEAR NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL AREAS. SO THAT THERE IS A COMBINATION OF HOUSING TYPES MISSING, MIDDLE HOUSING. THAT IS LIKE A BIG TERM THAT WE TALK ABOUT AND SAY, AND THAT REALLY IS IN THIS EXPANSION AND ACCESS TO HOUSING LIFECYCLE HOUSING, AGAIN, . INCO.

WORK THAT WE DO HAVE TO SAY AS PLANNERS. BUT WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE 2 TO 2 UNITS, BASICALLY, SO THE DUPLEXES ALL THE WAY TO DELIVER APARTMENTS, STYLE HOUSING AND WELL, I WOULD SAY NOT EVEN APARTMENTS LIKE THE LIVE WORK IS MORE, I WOULD SAY. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY WAS SIX UNITS? YEAH, 2 TO 16. SO IT'S THAT INCREMENTAL DENSITY THAT IS COHESIVE WITH A SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT IT DOES PROVIDE ADDITIONAL, AGAIN, OPTIONS FOR NEIGHBORHOOD AND COMMUNITY. SO INTERACTIVE ACTIVITY. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE SO FAR? THIS IS THE TIME. WE'LL JUST HAVE DISCUSSION. IT'LL BE FUN.

AND WE'LL GET YOUR OPINIONS ON SOME OF THESE HOUSING TYPES. SO SINCE WE ARE . DO DIFFERENTLY IN THE 2015 SO WE WON'T HAVE THE SAME FAILURES.

WHAT WE HEARD A LOT OF THE TIMES, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S INCENTIVES, THE CITY HAS LEVERAGE OR ACCESS TO, BUT THOSE ARE KIND OF OTHER THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, THINK ABOUT THAT WE WOULD HAVE MISSED. YEAH, I THINK I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IS JUST FROM THE HIGHWAY 36 ORDER HAS GUIDED FOR THE PLAN, BUT THE ZONING HASN'T BEEN CHANGED. SO IF THAT'S REALLY GOING TO BE A PLACE WHERE THERE'S GOING TO BE HOUSING ALLOWED, YOU HAVE TO THE ZONING WORK. OTHERS IN THE CITY THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO DO THAT SAME THING IN, WHETHER

[00:40:07]

THIS KIND OF, YOU KNOW. DEVELOPER JEWEL AND HELP US OUT. AND OFTEN THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE MAKING OTHER THINGS WORK AND DON'T HAVE THE HOUSING OR THEY CAN'T GET THE THINGS.

IF YOU REALLY CHALLENGE YOU AND TAKE YEARS TO GET IT, THEY'RE NOT DOING MARKET RATE, WHICH IS MUCH EASIER FOR THEM. SO WE DON'T HAVE THAT GOAL THAT MAYBE SOMETHING WE CONSIDER MAKING A RECOMMENDATION ON THIS NEXT SET OF, OF, OF HOUSING POLICIES, YOU KNOW, THE PANDEMIC. REALLY MADE A LOT OF, OF HOUSING DEVELOPERS. AND SO ALSO PROBABLY CONTRIBUTED TO THAT.

AND WE DIDN'T HAVE, THE CHANCE FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. OTHER MATERIAL AS WELL. BUT THOSE ARE THINGS THAT STAND OUT TO ME. I'M A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. SO THE COUNCIL, IN ITS GUIDANCE IS REQUIRING US TO DEMONSTRATE IN THE 2050 PLAN THAT WE COULD. ACCOMMODATE 600 UNITS OF HOUSING OF IN EIGHT. BUT 339 OF THOSE UNITS NEED TO MEET THE PORTABILITY CRITERIA. YES, THEY NEED BUT AT LEAST THAT MANY HAVE TO BE KIND OF TARGETED. FIRST COUPLE OPTIONS ABOUT HOW TO ACCOMMODATE THAT WOULD BE. 1010 UNITS PER ACRE. THAT'S ONE OF THE OPTIONS. YES.

AND SO IN ACCOMPLISHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF. VACANT LAND BECAUSE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT, THAT MEANS THAT WE NEED TO REVISE THEM AND USE THEM TO UPZONE. I GUESS WHAT IS CURRENTLY RESIDENTIAL OR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL? ZONING, WE HAVE TO BE CHANGING SOME OF THOSE DENSITIES, THE MINIMUM DENSITIES TO KIND OF INCREASE THE FLOOR. AND AGAIN, THE NET WOULD BE EVERYWHERE. AND YOU CAN MAYBE CARVE OUT AREAS WHERE IT'S MORE. BUT CERTAINLY ONE OF THE POTENTIAL OUTCOMES OF HAVING TO FIND MORE SPACES IS THAT DENSITY. OKAY.

YEAH. OR ANOTHER OPTION WOULD BE THAT ARE ON DUPLEXES IN, BUT THEY ALSO ALLOWED SOME HOUSING AND THEY ENDED UP CHANGING THEIR COMP PLAN, MAXIMUM DENSITY FOR LOW DENSITY TO 18. SO IN THEY HAVE ENOUGH LAND THAT'S ABOVE TEN UNITS PER ACRE. SO IT'S JUST LOOKING AT SIZES AND THE DETAILS, FIGURING OUT WHAT DENSITY DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES ARE. SOME OF THE LORD. THAT'S A MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING TYPES. TEN UNITS PER ACRE SO EASILY MISSING MIDDLE IS I KNOW IT'S.

IN THE PLANT PLANNING OF JORDAN. YEAH, YEAH. BUT BASICALLY WHAT IT MEANS IS HOUSING BETWEEN

[00:45:04]

MIGHT SAY TOWNHOUSES. IT MIGHT SAY SOMETHING ELSE. I DON'T WANT TO USE ANY OTHER RULES RELATED PERMITTING, LIKE CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS OR VARIANCES THAT PROVIDE MORE FLEXIBILITY AS AFFORDABILITY FACTOR. SO MAYBE IT'S LIKE A PUBLIC INTEREST FACTOR. YEAH, TRYING TO THINK ABOUT THAT. YEAH. SOMETIMES THEY'LL DO. DUTIES. SOMETIMES THEY'LL DO A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THAT'S THE QUESTION. I'VE SEEN ALTERNATIVE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE WILL LOWER YOUR COST. DOES TO ME, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THE INNER WORKINGS OF OTHER CITIES AND KIND OF WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES. SO JUST TRYING TO THINK CREATIVELY ON NON-MONETARY WAYS TO. I MEAN, ONE WOULD BE TO JUST CLEARLY OVER TIME ABOUT ZONING. THAT'S WHAT I'M STRUGGLING A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WE WERE ZONING A LOT OF CHANGES IN THE COMPANY BECAUSE THE COMPANY COULD SET A POLICY FOR THAT. ONE THING IS TO TRY TO SET THE STANDARDS FOR DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES .

THIS IS THAT IS REALLY THE, THE REALLY OUR DOCUMENT, IS THE ONE WHO'S REALLY THE PLANNING COMMISSION MAKES THE PROPOSAL. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I, I'M HAPPY AND GOOD WITH FAIRLY FAR AFIELD OF THESE THINGS. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE DO IT. IT'S KIND OF.

YES. AND A LOT OF THIS STUFF THAT, YOU KNOW, EMPTY OFFICES AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON. WE SHOULD. PROBABLY ENCOURAGE, YOU KNOW, CHANGES OF PARKING AND THESE TYPES OF THINGS. A LOT OF THESE. A LOT OF FRONT AND THEY GET A BONUS BY, YOU KNOW, BY IN THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHICH IS WHAT WE REALLY AFTER A LOT OF THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A BENEFIT FOR US. YES. WELL, THE. QUESTIONS WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN HOUSING CHAPTERS IN GENERAL, I THINK BECAUSE THE COUNCIL HAS SO MANY REQUIREMENTS, SOMETIMES THESE JUST KIND OF ARISE THEIR WHOLE CHAPTER BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO REQUIREMENTS AND CITIES AREN'T SPENDING AS MUCH

[00:50:08]

KNOW, WE DIDN'T GET THE REZONING DONE BEFORE, YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF DATA. BUT, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, I, SOME OF THE PROPERTY IS ALSO PART OF THE EXPLANATION AS TO WHY WE HAVEN'T MADE ANY PROGRESS IS THAT, YOU KNOW, AND MAYBE THIS PLAN TO .

ABOUT WHAT YOU NEED AND WHAT ARE THOSE HOUSES AND IS A LEGAL REQUIREMENT. BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE MET COUNCIL REQUIRES THAT WE HAVE 339 UNITS. IS THAT A REQUIREMENT OR IS THAT A. ASPIRATIONAL DIRECTIVE, I GUESS? IT IS. COUNCIL SAYS THIS IS THE STANDARD YOU HAVE TO MEET, AND IF YOU ARE NOT MEETING IT. A LOT OF OUR PLAN HAS RIPPLE EFFECTS WHICH SPILL OVER INTO STORAGE AND TRANSPORTATION NETWORK AND THINGS. SO HOWEVER, IT HAS EVOLVED WHERE ESSENTIALLY YOU MUST MEET THIS NO QUALIFICATIONS MINIMUM STANDARD WHERE YOU'RE PLANNING TO GET IT APPROVED BY BY US AT THE COUNCIL. I KNOW SOME OF THESE DEVELOPMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS BEEN PUSHED BACK AGAINST THEM. AND I KNOW SOMETIMES THAT COMPROMISES AND THEY CHANGE THE NUMBERS OF SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE CAN DETECTABLE WITH OTHER CASES HAPPENED IN NORTH OAKS AND HELD THE GROUND AND SAID, NO, YOU HAVE TO MEET OUR STANDARDS. AND IT GOES TO LEGAL CHANNELS AND HOW TO GET TO WHATEVER THEY HAVE SAID. SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW IT'S GOTTEN TO THAT POINT, BUT IT IS JUST ASPIRATIONAL THAT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT IF YOU WANT IT TO BE APPROVED AT THE COUNCIL LEVEL. SO OTHERWISE IT'D BE, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD. OTHERWISE. OKAY. WE HAVE TO BE APPROVED FOR THAT APPROVAL.

THEN THERE'S RAMIFICATIONS.

IF YOU HAVE. A. SMELL AND YOU CAN WORK WITH HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY

[00:55:02]

DOT COM AND USE THE 39192239 UNDER THERE AND THEY'LL GET YOU TO THE SAME EXERCISE.

WHEN YOU'RE READY.

OKAY. SORRY. LOVE. YOU'RE HAND ON YOUR SUPPORT OF ABUSE. IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE ABUSE, THERE ARE FOUR DIFFERENT TYPES. YOU COULD BE CONVERGENCE. NOT JUST THESE ONES, BUT, YOU KNOW, ADDICTS. SO GARAGES USE OR ATTACHED TO USE. AND WE'VE ALSO SEEN SOME GARAGE CONDITIONS. SO PEOPLE HAVE THEIR GARAGE OR ABOVE THEIR GARAGE. SO PRETTY LEVEL OF SUPPORT ON THAT. AND IF WE HAVE TIME, WE'LL HAVE A DISCUSSION ON EACH HOUSING TYPE.

SO NOW. SOME OF THESE TERMS WERE IMPERVIOUS. MEANING THAT WOULD NOT BE A CONCERN JUST BECAUSE OF THOSE STANDARDS. BUT NOT ALL. SO YOU'RE JUST WORKING TOWARDS. THAT. ALL RIGHT. SO WE GOT A LOT OF SUPPORT AND SOME SUPPORT WITH CONCERNS AND SYMPTOMS REPORT. SO GUYS HAVE ANY THOUGHTS SPECIFICALLY WE HOPE TO HEAR FROM SUPPORT CONCERNS OR IF THERE'S ANY SPECIFIC REASONS OR ITEMS THAT WE SHOULD DISCUSS. OUR KNOWLEDGE THAT WILL DO SO UNDER YOUR SAY IT HERE. I LIKE I SAID, PROBABLY. BEFORE, THE CAVEAT THAT MENTIONED EARLIER, BUT.

JUST ENSURING THAT OUR CITY REQUIREMENTS OF IMPERVIOUS SURFACE ENSURE. I THINK THE USE IS. I PROVIDES ANOTHER DIVERSITY ELEMENT OF TIME THAT. THE CITY AND HAVE MIDDLE. I USE MIDDLE HOUSING THAT YOU GUYS USE AROUND MEETING A LOT OF DIFFERENT NEEDS FOR FOR PROVIDING. I THINK YOU SAID THAT I WAS THINKING THAT SUPPORT WERE CONCERNED FOR THE SAME REASON, BUT WE ON THE SAME PAGE ESSENTIALLY. ON THE GROUND CONCERNED, IT'S JUST GOING TO BE USED FOR AIRBNB IS AND BED AND BREAKFASTS. IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD NOT BE USED FOR.

HOUSING AND I. AM CONCERNED THAT IT'S YOU KNOW, I WANT RENT IT OUT ON THE WEEKENDS AND THAT THE MECHANISM . LIMITED TIME. WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT AND OUR CODES TO.

[01:00:29]

FULLY SUPPORT US. ARE THERE ANY WAS THERE ANY . THE THU KNOW, IN SOME WAYS, SEEING A JUY CITY IN THE CITY. NOW, YOU KNOW, THE 1970S NEIGHBORHOODS ARE GOING TO TAKE TO THAT. I THINK IT REALLY FITS IN THE OLDEST OF PARTS FOR SURE. AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE IT IS CURRENTLY IS THE VARIOUS NEIGHBORHOODS. YEAH. I MEAN, I WOULD PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD DO A FAIR AMOUNT OF THESE WITH DID VERY WELL. THERE. ARE DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS. AS WELL. YEAH.

WOULD YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT QUESTION? DO SIMILAR TO SINGLE FAMILY HOMES? ARE THAT SMALLER SIZE, WOULD YOU SAY LIKE. 5000 OR. YEAH, YEAH YEAH YEAH. DO THAT. SO WE GOT A LOT AGAIN, FULLY SUPPORT AND WITH CONCERNS. ANYBODY WANT TO SPEAK ON THE CONCERNS THAT. FULLY SUPPORT FIRST. AMENDMENT. WE SUPPORT. I THINK THE SUPPORT WORK CONCERNS THAT WE ARE AWARE OF. IF THERE'S GOING TO BE GREENFIELD THAT WE ARE USING, THAT WE'RE BEING SMART ABOUT THE ACTUAL GARDENS TO THE OVERALL PLAN. SO IT'S MORE ABOUT CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT, WHICH I THINK IT'S BETTER THAN ALL THESE OTHER OPTIONS. THERE IS ONE LARGE BLOCK DEVELOPMENT, BUT AGAIN, IT'S JUST MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE NOT DOING

[01:05:05]

HOUSES WITH SHARED COMMUNAL SPACES BETWEEN, YOU KNOW. KIND OF LIFESTYLE ENJOYING AGAINST.

AND, AND MORE WITHIN A WAY. OKAY. AND THIS IS MORE OF A LONG TERM. YEAH. BUT I HAD A QUESTION FOR THE ESCAPES IS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE AN EQUIVALENT BECAUSE THEY HAVE SHARED SPACE. GOOD QUESTION. YEAH. I THINK YOU. SO THAT THE CONCERNS THAT CONCERNS. FOR SOME FOLKS ON THAT. YEAH MAKES SENSE. UNLESS THE CITY INVESTED IN LAND THAT. YEAH. WERE THERE ANY OTHER CONCERNS THAT CAME UP IN YOUR MIND WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THESE. IT'S JUST A NEW VIEW.

YEAH. THAT WERE NOT ESPECIALLY WITH I GUESS THE OTHER THING IS THE PROPERTY THAT YOU'D BE ABLE TO DO THAT I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHERE NECESSARILY THAT THERE WOULD BE SPACE TO BE ABLE TO. BUT EXCEPT THE DEVELOPMENT THAT CAME THROUGH AND SORT OF THE NAME OF RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, THAT HAS SPACE UP THERE AND ACTUALLY SOME OF THE PARCELS YED THERE'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE ARE AT A BIGGER SCALE.

LIKE I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE ZONING CODE UNITS OR EIGHT UNITS ACROSS OR UNITS. SO THERE

[01:10:03]

WE HAVE TO HAVE WAYS OF BEING AROUND. OTHER THAN HOW YOUR CURRENT OR WALKING IN THE STREET. SO I SUPPORT CONCERNS FOR THE SAME REASONS. THAT. WE HAVE TWO MORE OF THESE QUESTIONS. AND THEN WE HAVE A FINAL KIND OF PRIORITIZATION QUESTION, WHICH CAN BE A LITTLE TRICKY. SO SMALL SCALE APARTMENTS, WE TALK ABOUT SMALL SCALE FARMERS. WE'RE THINKING THE 2 TO 3 STORY MAXIMUM. AND THAT CAN BE, YOU KNOW, 18 UNITS OR EVEN MORE THAN THAT. THERE'S THERE'S A DIFFERENT THERE'S A VARIETY OF STYLES OF WHAT THAT COULD LOOK LIKE. AND YOU CAN SEE HOW IT KIND OF INTO THE COMMUNITY A LITTLE BIT NICER. AND IN, YOU KNOW, BEING, AS YOU KNOW, LARGE SCALE AS HIGH DENSITY APARTMENT AND AGAIN, CAN GET YOU THAT INCREMENTAL DENSITY, INCREMENTAL HOUSING TYPE THAT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE ACCESSIBLE TO PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT INCOME BRACKETS AND LIFESTYLES IN GENERAL. UPGRADES. WHATEVER. THEY'RE MOSTLY SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT HIGHER, BUT NOT SUBSTANTIALLY. SO LIKE GOING UP. STRUCTURES, BUT NOT SO THESE ARE ISSUES. RIGHT? WE SUPPORT ACROSS THE BOARD. NO CONCERNS WITH THIS ONE BECAUSE.

ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR CONCERNS OR THERE'S NO CONCERNS ABOUT IS IS THERE A SPECIFIC NEIGHBORHOOD OR AREA THAT YOU CAN THINK ABOUT THESE. SO THIS MIGHT BE GOOD WITH INFILL. YEAH.

SO. IS REPORTED IN THE ZONING CODE. NEED TO CATCH UP TO ALLOW ANY. BUT THIS IS ALMOST PERFECT FOR INFILLS. YEAH. YOU KNOW, MINNEAPOLIS HAD DONE WITH THEIR ZONING CODE AND ALLOWING KIND OF MULTIFAMILY EVERY, YOU KNOW, EVERY LOCATION THROUGHOUT THE CITY. I, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE COMMUNITY. SO WHY ARE WE BUILDING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT DIRECTION THAT I COULD SEE THAT

[01:15:03]

CONCERNS? I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. ANYBODY WANT TO SPEAK TO A FEW OTHER QUESTIONS OR SAY. USE SCENARIOS VERSUS JUST APARTMENTS, BUT THEN ALSO CONSIDERATIONS OF TRAFFIC AND THINGS GO WITH THAT. COMMERCIAL, WHICH IS SMART, WHERE THOSE ARE PLACED. THIS IS A USE OF THEM.

AND YOU START BRINGING COMMERCIAL AROUND OUTSIDE OF THE BORDERS. WITHOUT A PROBLEM BECAUSE END UP GETTING YOUR DESTINY NUMBERS. BUT IN STILLWATER, IT ENDS UP . THAT I N THE LOCATION OF IT, YOU KNOW. STUFF LIKE THIS IS PROBABLY MORE ALONG THE LINE OF WHAT WE DO THAT WE SHOULD AT LEAST HAVE THE OPTION OF BEING LIMITED.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK ABOUT THIS AS A SOLUTION FOR THE HIGHWAY 36 CORRIDOR. BUT. I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING IN A SENSE, BECAUSE WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, MOVE TO STILLWATER TO LIVE ON, YOU KNOW, A RETAIL ESTABLISHMENT OR HIGHWAY 36 AND DOWNTOWN, YOU KNOW? ALL RIGHT. COOL. BUT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT AS WELL KNOW IF ANY PLACE ELSE IN THE METRO AREA, NOT STILLWATER. IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A. AND A PART OF WHAT I WRITE DOWN HERE.

I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES TO EXPLORE

[01:20:18]

PRIORITIES THAT YOU WANT TO SEE GOING FORWARD THROUGH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TO PRIORITIZE.

SO I'M HAPPY TO SEE THAT PLACE. BUT. I DON'T USE THE TERM APARTMENTS. AND IT DEFINITELY DOES, YOU KNOW. MAKE PEOPLE A POTENTIAL ISSUE. BUT YEAH, SO THAT'S DEFINITELY ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE FIRST PRIORITIES. AND THEN EDU AND HATCH, OH, COURTYARDS AND HOMES AND DUPLEXES ACTUALLY ALL KIND OF TIE WITH EACH OTHER. SO THIS IS DEFINITELY VERY HELPFUL TO KEEP IN MIND FOR US AS WE CONTINUE THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT EXPANDING HOUSING TYPES. IS THERE ANY THOSE LIKE REALLY HARD TO PICK FROM THE OTHER OR. THAT YOU WOULD BECAUSE NOW THERE'S LIKE THREE TIMES IF THERE'S ONE OF THEM OFF, WHICH ONE WOULD YOU OF. OR KEEP AS A GOOD OPTION? WELL, SOME OF THEM WERE LIKE. SO FAR, BUT YOU KNOW, A SENSE OF YOU'RE HERE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL. YOU KNOW.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT ALMOST YOU COMBINE A COUPLE, YOU KNOW, THOSE TWO ARE REALLY SIMILAR.

BUT. LIKE I DO. OPPORTUNITY, I WAS CALCULATED ON THAT. NOT NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO IT JUST I DON'T KNOW THE OPPORTUNITY NECESSARILY AT AND I STATED FROM THE FIRST PART, BECAUSE OF THE, YOU KNOW, WHO TAKES CARE OF THE PART AND, YOU KNOW, ARE YOU JUST OPENING UP MORE CHOICE? OR IF MORE OF A SYSTEM. ROLE OF, YOU KNOW. COMING HOME GARAGES. AND WHEN YOU HAVE SIDEWALKS. WE HAVE ALL. OF RANGE WERE NOT THINKING ABOUT, A COMMUNITY, A WHOLE BUNCH OF PORTFOLIO OF CHANGE OPTIONS, JUST PUSHING THEM OUT. THAT'S JUST FOLLOW UP ON THAT DISCUSSION. SO. AND THEY'RE ALL.

[01:25:14]

CUT TO, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO THINK ABOUT WHAT MEDIUM DENSITY IS. AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES THREE PER ACRE REALLY MEAN? IF YOU START ABOUT TWO PLUS THREE PLUS LIKE THAT IS SCARY TO THINK ABOUT THE SCALE. YOU CAN'T REALLY CONCEPTUALIZE ON THE SERVER ON THE GROUND AND SEE A HOUSE AND THEY'RE LIKE, OH, AND, AND THEN YOU TELL THEM, OH, THIS WAS. DUPLEX. WHAT? YOU KNOW, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, EVEN KNOW THAT. SO I THINK HAVE SOMETHING TO TAKE AWAY FROM THIS CONVERSATION IS HOUSING FOR THE VISION. YOU KNOW, I KNOW YOU'RE SPEAKING FOR MYSELF OF THIS AGAIN, TO MAYBE LOOK AT SOME OF THESE THINGS IS TO RATCHET ALL THOSE A LITTLE BIT AS WELL. THE DENSITY ON EACH OF THOSE, EACH OF THOSE CATEGORIES. IS ALL OF THESE. I MEAN, OUTSIDE OF THE. YEARS WOULD. IF DONE IN A HOME OWNERSHIP MODEL, WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO MEET YOU.

THINK ABOUT AND TOGETHER. LIKE OBVIOUSLY THE TYPE OF THING I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT. AND I DEVELOPER AND AS WELL AS. PREFERENCE, RIGHT? SO IT'S A GOOD CONSIDERATION.

THANK YOU ALL FOR PARTICIPATING. WE'LL TURN TO THE PRESENTATION AND WRAP UP AND OPEN MORE DISCUSSION OR ANY QUESTIONS I. SO NEXT STEPS IS WE'LL USE ALL THE INPUT YOU GUYS PROVIDED FOR US TODAY . BE ACTUAL SYSTEMS. AND CLIMATE IS A NEW. THOSE. ENGAGEMENT. SO WE DID HAVE A MEETING WITH THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE JUST BEFORE PLANNING COMMISSION. AND THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD CONVERSATION AS WELL, BECAUSE THEY STAYED ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING PROCESS AND HOW WE COME TO WORK AND COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT. SO ALL OF YOUR FEEDBACK, ALL THEIR FEEDBACK IS GOING TO BE JUST AS HELPFUL. AND IT'S REALLY A PLEASURE TO BE CHATTING WITH YOU ALL TODAY. AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. WONDERFUL.

[IX. FYI – STAFF UPDATES]

[01:30:06]