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SEPTEMBER 23RD, 2026 MEETING OF THE STILLWATER PLANNING COMMISSION. WE ARE MISSING COMMISSIONER SWANSON, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, ALL COMMISSIONERS ARE PRESENT. NEXT ON OUR AGENDA
[III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
IS CONSIDERATION OF THE MINUTES FROM THE AUGUST 26TH, 2026 MEETING. ANY CHANGES, ADDITIONS, CORRECTIONS OR MOTIONS? MOTION TO APPROVE THE AUGUST 26TH MEETING MINUTES OF 2026. OKAY.IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING I. AYE. THOSE OPPOSED THAT MOTION CARRIES.
NEXT UP IS OUR OPEN FORUM. THIS IS A CHANCE FOR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION ON ANYTHING THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA. IF YOU WOULD WISH TO DO THAT, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME TO DO THAT. COME FORWARD TO THE TO THE PODIUM. KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO FIVE MINUTES OR LESS. BUT SEEING NO ONE RUSHING TOWARDS THE PODIUM, WE WILL CLOSE THE
[2. Case No. CD2026-038: Conditional Use Permit request for a Gym at 220 Commercial Street]
OPEN FORUM AND START INTO OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS. THE FIRST ONE UP, AND ACTUALLY, I THINK MR. ZIMMERMAN WILL HAVE SOME INTRODUCTIONS FIRST, AND THEN WE WILL OPEN UP OUR OUR FIRST CASE. THANK YOU, CHAIR COMMISSIONERS. YEAH. THIS IS THIS IS JULIE BOYD. SHE'S OUR NEW CITY PLANNER. SHE'S BEEN ON BOARD TWO AND A HALF WEEKS. SO NOTHING LIKE RIGHT INTO THE FIRE AND PRESENTING THE FIRST TWO ITEMS ON THE AGENDA. TONIGHT, SHE COMES TO US FROM KANSAS, A SUBURB OF WICHITA, ANDOVER, IN MID-JUNE. THIS IS EXACTLY THIS KIND OF WORK FOR THE LAST THREE PLUS YEARS. SO WE ARE VERY EXCITED TO HAVE HER ON BOARD, ESPECIALLY GIVEN BEN BEING OUT FOR A FEW MONTHS. SO YOU CAN HAVE MORE INFORMAL GETTING TO KNOW HER AFTER THE MAIN MEAT OF THE MEETING. BUT SHE WILL BE TAKING THE FIRST TWO CASES FOR YOU TONIGHT.WONDERFUL. AND WITH THAT, WE WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC. WE WILL HEAR THE STAFF PRESENTATION FOR CASE NUMBER 2026-038. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND REQUEST FOR A GYM AT 220 COMMERCIAL STREET. THANK YOU. SO AS YOU SAID, WE HAVE A CUP APPLICATION FOR A GYM TO 20 COMMERCIAL. IT IS ABOUT A 0.1 ACRE LOT WITH AN EXISTING STRUCTURE. THEY'RE ASKING FOR A THE OPERATION OF A PRIVATE MEMBERSHIP BASED GYM. SO THIS IS NOT LIKE A LIKE A PLANET FITNESS TYPE THING. THE APPLICANT HAS TOLD US THEY INTEND FOR 15 TO 20 MAXIMUM OCCUPANTS AT ANY GIVEN TIME, AND THAT WOULD BE THE ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM. WE DON'T REALLY EXPECT THERE TO EVEN BE THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THERE AT THAT TIME. NO LARGE GROUP CLASSES OR THINGS LIKE THAT. IT'S MORE SO INDIVIDUAL STRENGTH TRAINING AND CONDITIONING. IF YOU LOOK IN YOUR PACKET, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THE PLANS THAT WERE PROVIDED FOR THE INTERNAL REMODEL COME WITH A POSING ROOM SO YOU CAN TAKE PICTURES OF YOUR PROGRESS, I SUPPOSE. YEAH.
KIND OF UNIQUE. WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THERE WOULD BE 3 TO 4 EMPLOYEES AT ANY GIVEN TIME, AND THEY INTEND TO OPERATE FROM APPROXIMATELY 5 A.M. TO 10 P.M. ALL SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, UNLESS THEY FIND THAT THAT'S NOT FEASIBLE OR PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SHOW UP ON A PARTICULAR DAY OR TIME. AS I SAID, THERE WILL BE AN INTERIOR REMODEL. THE EXTERIOR HAS WOULD NOT BE REMODELED, EXCEPT OBVIOUSLY THERE'D BE SOME NEW SIGNAGE FOR THE STRUCTURE. AND I THINK I HAVE SOME PICTURES IN HERE. THEY INTEND TO REPAINT THE EXISTING PAINT ON THE BUILDING.
COULD USE SOME WORK. THE COLOR THAT THE APPLICANT HAS GIVEN US THAT THEY WANT TO PAINT IT TO IS LINEN WHITE. SO PROBABLY BE A LITTLE BIT LIGHTER THAN THIS CURRENT KIND OF MIDDLE GRAY THAT THE BUILDING HAS, BUT NOT TERRIBLY OUT OF PLACE WITH WHAT'S AROUND DOWNTOWN THERE.
GO BACK. SO THE ONE THING THAT IS THAT IS VERY OBVIOUS ABOUT THIS SITE IS THAT PARKING IS ABSOLUTELY INSUFFICIENT HERE FOR WHAT THIS USE REQUIRES. PER THE CODE, THEY'D BE REQUIRED TO HAVE ONE PARKING SPACE PER 100FT■!S OF GROSS FLOOR AREA, WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT IN THIS CASE, THEY'D HAVE TO HAVE 26 OFF STREET PARKING SPACES. AND ON THIS LOT THERE ARE FOUR OFF STREET PARKING PARKING SPACES EXISTING. HOWEVER, THIS IS PRETTY SIMILAR TO THE SITUATION THAT A LOT OF THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESSES FACE. YOU KNOW, EVERY RESTAURANT DOES NOT HAVE A BUNCH OF OFF STREET PARKING IN FRONT OF IT. THERE'S THE STREET PARKING IN THE DOWNTOWN PARKING DISTRICT. AND SO STAFF FEEL THAT THAT IS A MEANINGFUL ENOUGH CONTRIBUTION TO PARKING IN THE AREA THAT THEY CAN SHARE IN THAT DOWNTOWN PARKING DISTRICT, ESPECIALLY SINCE THERE'S ENOUGH FOR ALL THE EMPLOYEES THAT MIGHT BE WORKING AT THIS ESTABLISHMENT AT ONE GIVEN TIME. IF THERE'S, YOU KNOW, FIVE PEOPLE LIFTING WEIGHTS, THEY COULD PARK SOMEWHERE ON THE ON THE STREET OR ON ONE OF THE PUBLIC OFF STREET LOTS AS WELL. I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF SUFFICIENT PARKING TO ABSORB THE DEMAND FOR THIS FOR THIS BUSINESS.
THERE'S THAT INTERIOR REMODEL. IT'S OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS KIND OF ESTABLISHMENT WOULD BE A LOT OF WEIGHTLIFTING KIND OF ACTIVITY. AND THEY INTEND TO PUT IN A RUBBER FLOOR,
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YOU KNOW, WEIGHTS GET DROPPED. THAT'S PRETTY NOISY. AND THEY INTEND TO PLAY MUSIC. SO THAT WOULD HELP TO DEADEN THE SOUND IN ORDER TO REDUCE THE IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING AREA. SO STAFF'S PROPOSED FINDINGS, WE THINK THAT A GYM OR FITNESS CENTER, WHILE NOT EXPLICITLY CALLED OUT, ACTUALLY GYM DOESN'T HAVE A DEFINITION IN THE CODE, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, IS A COMPATIBLE USE WITH THIS AREA, IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY INDOORS, NO REAL IMPACT ON THE SURROUNDING AREA, AND ESPECIALLY WITH THAT CONSIDERATION FOR NOISE, IF YOU MINIMIZING A LOT OF THAT. YEAH, WOULDN'T CONSTITUTE A NUISANCE WITH THE RUBBER FLOORING. SO STAFF RECOMMENDING THAT YOU ALL RECOMMEND APPROVAL BINDING WITH KIND OF THE BOILERPLATE CONDITIONS THAT ARE USUALLY ATTACHED TO, TO THIS KIND OF THING, CONSISTENCY WITH THE APPROVED PLANS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. OBVIOUSLY, THIS WILL HAVE TO GET PERMITS FOR THE INTERIOR REMODEL. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THEY HAVE NOT EVEN BEGUN THAT PROCESS YET. SO THAT PLAN REVIEW WOULD STILL HAVE TO HAPPEN INDEPENDENTLY. I'LL STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS. DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I HAVE A QUESTION, IF I MAY. OKAY. SO DOES STAFF HAVE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT PARKING CAPACITY? IF THE. FACILITY CHANGED ITS BUSINESS PLAN? SO RIGHT NOW OF COURSE, 15 TO 20, YOU KNOW, THAT MAKES SOME, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMERS AT ANY GIVEN TIME MAKE SOME SENSE TO ME. BUT IF A HEAVIER USE FALLING UNDER THE CATEGORY OF GYM WERE TO BE PROPOSED. YOU KNOW, WOULD COULD PARKING BE AN ISSUE FROM STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE? SURE. YEAH. YOU COULD POTENTIALLY OPEN IT UP TO A MORE HIGH CAPACITY, STANDARD PUBLIC GYM KIND OF KIND OF DESIGN. I THINK THAT THEY ARE PRETTY LIMITED BY THE SIZE OF THIS BUILDING FOR THAT PURPOSE, EVEN IF THE INTENT WAS NOT TO HAVE THIS SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE, I DON'T REALLY THINK THE FIRE CODE WOULD LET THEM HAVE VERY MANY MORE AT ANY GIVEN TIME, BUT IT WOULD BE BIG ENOUGH TO HAVE CLASSES, FOR EXAMPLE, POTENTIALLY, POTENTIALLY, IF NONE OF THE STATED INTENT WERE ACTUALLY FOLLOWED THROUGH WITH, YOU KNOW, IT IS FEASIBLE. IN OUR OPINION, THE AVAILABLE PARKING SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT A LOT OF THE USE WE WOULD EXPECT TO BE IN. WHAT'S KIND OF MORE OFF HOURS OPENING AT 5 A.M. THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF AVAILABLE PARKING. IS. DOES STAFF HAVE AN OPINION OR A THOUGHT THROUGH THE BUILDING'S KIND OF STRANGE. AND I NOTICED THAT THERE'S A GARAGE DOOR AND I PERSONALLY WORK OUT AT A GYM THAT HAS THE GARAGE DOOR OPENER IN SUMMER MONTHS. HAVE THEY HAS THERE BEEN ANY CONVERSATION ABOUT NOISE OUTSIDE OF THE RUBBER PADDING AND WHETHER OR NOT THE GARAGE DOOR NEEDS TO BE OPEN OR SHUT? WE HAVE NOT HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE APPLICANT, BUT CERTAINLY CAN FOLLOW UP. IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THEY DON'T INTEND TO OPEN IT. THEY'VE NEVER MENTIONED LEAVING IT HANGING OPEN. BUT I AM FAMILIAR WITH FACILITIES LIKE THIS THAT DO THAT KIND OF THING FOR SURE. HAD ONE DOWN THE STREET FROM MY HOUSE. SO YEAH, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY DID SPECIFICALLY IN THEIR PROPOSAL, BRING UP THE MUSIC AND SAID THEY WOULD TRY TO BE VERY RESPECTFUL BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT CAN BE A NUISANCE. SO I WOULD THINK THAT THEY HAVE THAT ON THEIR MINDS, BUT WE WILL DEFINITELY MAKE SURE. OKAY. FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. GREAT. THANK YOU. IS THE APPLICANT HERE AND DO THEY HAVE ANYTHING THAT THEY WISH TO ADD? OKAY. WELL, I GUESS MAYBE THE QUESTION TO ASK THEN IS THE YOU KNOW, IS ABOUT THE GARAGE DOOR. IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND COMING COMING FORWARD, INTRODUCE YOURSELF FOR THE FOR THE RECORD, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PUSH A BUTTON ON THERE TO TURN THAT GREEN. THERE YOU GO. THERE WE GO. YEAH. CHAD LEMON OKAY, WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? AND SO THE QUESTION IS ABOUT THE GARAGE DOOR AND WHETHER IT'S GOING TO BE OPEN. I THINK THE CONCERNS THAT WE PROBABLY HAVE UP HERE IS ABOUT NOISE. THEN WITH THAT GARAGE DOOR OPEN, IT'S ONE THING NOISE INSIDE OF A BUILDING. WE GET IT. THERE'S A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HAVE THE MUSIC. IT HELPS PUMP PEOPLE UP, YOU KNOW? YEAH, YOU'RE GOING TO BE DROPPING WEIGHTS, THAT TYPE OF STUFF.THAT'S ONE THING. WHEN THE DOOR WHEN WHEN IT'S A SEALED BUILDING, IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING. WHEN YOU HAVE THE, YOU KNOW, HAVE A GARAGE DOOR LIKE THAT OPEN. AND SO I GUESS THE QUESTION GETS TO BE, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE ANTICIPATING THAT THE GARAGE DOOR IS GOING TO BE OPEN AT CERTAIN TIMES, OR WOULD YOU BE AMENABLE TO A, YOU KNOW, TO SOMETHING SAYING WE WOULD HAVE THE GARAGE DOOR CLOSED OR. YEAH, IT WOULD BE OPEN AT SOME TIMES, ESPECIALLY WITH THE WEATHER'S NICE. IT DOES HAVE RUBBER MATTING ON THE THE FLOOR, SO
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THAT'LL HELP DAMPEN SOME OF THE NOISE. THE RADIO WOULD NOT BE AS LOUD. IF WE DO OPEN THE DOORS, THERE WILL BE RESTRICTION ON THE VOLUME. WE HAVE GONE AROUND THE BUILDING AND TESTED TO SEE HOW LOUD WE COULD HAVE IT. THE DOORS WOULDN'T BE OPEN SUPER EARLY IN THE MORNING WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, LIKE 9:00 AM, PROBABLY SHUT THE DOORS AT LIKE 6:00 PM. OKAY.YEP. OKAY, OKAY. FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT. OKAY, GREAT. WONDERFUL. THANK YOU. AND WITH THAT, WE WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANYONE HERE WISHING TO TESTIFY ON THIS ITEM? NOW IS THE TIME TO COME FORWARD TO THE PODIUM. ANYONE WISH TO TESTIFY? SEEING NO ONE, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONERS, WHAT DO WE THINK? THIS IS MORE A QUESTION FOR MY BENEFIT. WHEN WE HAVE ISSUES RELATED TO STREET PARKING, DOES THAT EVER GO TO THE DOWNTOWN PARKING COMMISSION? THE COMMISSIONER? YEAH. IF THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT DOWNTOWN PARKING, THAT COMMISSION IS A GOOD PLACE TO ADDRESS THEM. IN TERMS OF THE ZONING CODE AND THE PARKING REGULATIONS. I'LL JUST READ TO YOU THIS KIND OF CARVE OUT. IT SAYS THE OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS SHALL BE CONSIDERED SATISFIED IF THE PROPERTY THAT'S UNDER CONSIDERATION IS PART OF A DOWNTOWN PARKING DISTRICT, WHICH THIS IS WITHIN THAT PURVIEW. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE CODE, THEY ASSUME THAT THERE IS SUFFICIENT PARKING. IF NOT ON STREET, YOU KNOW, THE RAMP IS HALF A BLOCK AWAY. AND SO I THINK FROM STAFF'S POINT OF VIEW, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE OFF HOURS, THAT PARKING IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE FINE, ESPECIALLY IF THE RAMP IS THERE. BUT IF THERE ARE CONCERNS, IT IS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE FORWARDED TO THE DOWNTOWN PARKING COMMISSION TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT AND KIND OF WEIGH IN. IF YOU WANTED. OKAY, FURTHER DISCUSSION OR IS THERE A MOTION? I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION FOR STAFF. I'M SORRY. I'M TRYING, I'M TRYING. I KNOW GEOGRAPHICALLY WHERE THIS BUILDING IS. HOW FAR AWAY, IF YOU COULD BALLPARK IT, IS IT FROM RESIDENTIAL, A RESIDENTIAL AREA? LIKE I KNOW THERE'S A COUPLE APARTMENT AREAS NEAR. YEAH, THE NEAREST RESIDENTIAL IS PROBABLY THE RIVERTOWN COMMONS, WHICH IS NOT FACING THE GARAGE. THE GARAGE DOOR FACES THE JW CENTER AND THE BLANK WALL. SO TO GET TO RESIDENTIAL, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO GO UP THE STREET TOWARDS THE RAMP AND THEN BACK BEHIND YOU. AND THEN THE OTHER DIRECTION IS MAIN STREET. SO I GUESS THERE'S PROBABLY SOME APARTMENTS UP ABOVE SOME OF THE MAIN STREET BUSINESSES, BUT NOTHING DIRECTLY AWAY FROM THAT GARAGE DOOR. AND AGAIN, I CAN'T THINK OF ANY RESIDENCES OTHER THAN SOME APARTMENTS ON MAIN STREET, HOTELS A WAYS BEHIND YOU. SO NOT NOT CLOSE. I'M SORRY. ONE MORE QUESTION. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR. PLEASE DO. DOES THIS COMMISSION, HAVE THEY EVER RECOMMENDED IN THE PAST ANY CONDITIONS ON HOURS IN NOISINESS? I'M THINKING LIKE AUTOMOTIVE SHOPS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. AND DO YOU THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE HERE? WE HAVE CERTAINLY IN THE PAST SET HOURS ON AND WE HAVE CONCERNS AROUND NOISE. I THINK IT'S IF WE WANTED TO GO THAT DIRECTION, WE COULD TALK ABOUT WHAT'S REASONABLE. AND YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, STAKING IT OUT, BUT GIVING STAFF SOME ABILITY TO KIND OF ADJUST JUST SO THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO COME BACK AND AMEND A CONDITION. SO BEING VERY, FAIRLY GENEROUS, BUT I THINK AT LEAST LAYING OUT THE HOURS AT WHICH YOU WOULD HAVE YOUR BIGGEST CONCERNS AND KIND OF PUTTING SOME LIMITS IS REASONABLE. OR AS YOU SAID, IF THE GARAGE DOOR IS OPEN, THEN THIS KIND OF CONDITION COMES INTO PLAY. BUT NOISE IS CERTAINLY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS SET UP TO ADDRESS AND MITIGATE DURING THE APPROVAL PROCESS. OKAY. FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS, OR DO WE HAVE A MOTION? I YEAH, I HAVE THE SAME QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE GARAGE DOOR BEING OPEN AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF THERE'S A WAY TO FIGURE OUT SOME POTENTIAL CONDITIONS THAT WOULD APPLY IF THE GARAGE DOOR IS OPEN. THAT'S WHERE MY MIND'S AT.
I KNOW HER DISCUSSING HER MOVING AND THEN DISCUSSING, BUT RIGHT. IF WE'RE JUST DISCUSSING IT, IT'S THE REASONABLENESS OF THAT TIME FRAME AND PUTTING A LITTLE BIT THAT WE'VE DONE THAT BEFORE WHEN WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OTHER THEATERS AND OUTDOOR VENUES AND THAT KIND OF PUBLIC INTERFACE. SO I WOULD THINK WE COULD DISCUSS WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE. YEAH, I DON'T HAVE AN IDEA WHAT THE REASONABLENESS IS NECESSARILY, BUT BUT I MEAN, YEAH, IT'S YEAH. ANY CONDITIONS WE PUT ON NEED TO BE REASONABLE. BUT THEN THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DETERMINE IS WHAT IS REASONABLE. CAN WE PUT A CONDITION THAT SAYS WE WOULD LIKE STAFF TO WORK OUT THE AGREEMENT? DO WE HAVE TO SET THE HOURS HERE ON THE RECOMMEND THE APPROVAL RECOMMENDATION, OR DO WE SAY THE STAFF CAN WORK THROUGH THAT WITH THE CITY COUNCIL OR SOMETHING THAT I'M
[00:15:03]
NOT SURE HOW THAT WORKS. I THINK WE TRY AND DO IT. DO SOME NUMBERS, DO SOME NUMBERS HERE.OKAY. BUT I MEAN. COULD WE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I, I SEE THE, THE BENEFIT OF THE TOOL OF THE INTERIM USE PERMIT THAT IS THERE A WAY THAT WE COULD EVEN DO SAY THAT THE GARAGE DOOR REQUIRES AN INTERIM USE PERMIT? OR WERE YOU SAYING THAT IT NEEDS ONE JUST BECAUSE IT COULD BE REEXAMINED? IF IT GETS TO BE A PROBLEM? THAT'S FOR ME, THAT'S THE THE REAL ADVANTAGE I THINK OF OF AN IRP. BUT THIS IS A OR I, RIGHT. THIS IS A CUP. BUT CAN WE I HAVE SEEN CONDITIONS BE CRAFTED WHERE YOU KIND OF SET A MORE GENEROUS WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY, BUT THEN HAVE THE CLAUSE THAT STAFF MAY RESTRICT THOSE FURTHER IF PROBLEMS ARISE. AND THAT MEANS THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK TO YOU. AND WE'VE KIND OF STATED WHAT OUR CONCERNS ARE, BUT STAFF HAS THE ABILITY TO KIND OF SHRINK THOSE AND TIGHTEN THEM UP OR CREATE SOME MORE RESTRICTIONS. IF BECAUSE YOU'VE PUT THAT IN THE CONDITION, IT GIVES US SOME AUTHORITY. AGAIN, IF WE'RE GOING TO DRASTICALLY CHANGE IT, WE'D COME BACK, BUT IT HAS SOME SOME WIGGLE ROOM.
THAT'S MY CONCERN. IF YOU END UP WITH SOME FEEDBACK SIX MONTHS IN THAT YOU GUYS HAVE SOME LATITUDE TO DO THINGS WITHOUT REOPENING THIS WHOLE THING. SO THAT ANSWERS THAT QUESTION FOR ME. OKAY. WELL, I THINK WE YES OR NO STAFF, A LITTLE BIT MORE AMMO IF IT'S IN THE CUP RATHER THAN JUST STARTING WITH A NUISANCE PROCEEDING. AND YEAH, AND I GUESS THE OTHER QUESTION THEN GETS, AND YOU KNOW, THEN IF WE'RE, IF THAT'S KIND OF THE DIRECTION THAT WE'RE LOOKING, I'M I'M GUESS I'M NOT TOTALLY FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THE NOISE NUISANCE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, IS IT A, YOU KNOW, ZERO DECIBELS AT THE LOT LINE OR WHICH I DOUBT, BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS. YEAH. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT VERY WELL DEFINED AND IT GOES PRETTY LATE TO LIKE 10 P.M. SO IT'S A PRETTY, I THINK YOU'D WANT TO TIGHTEN IT UP BEYOND JUST WHAT THE NUISANCE CODE ALLOWS. OKAY. WELL COULD WE RECOMMEND A CONDITION, COULD WE RECOMMEND A CONDITION THAT. THE GARAGE DOOR BE CLOSED DURING OPERATING HOURS? IN ORDER TO MITIGATE, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, NOISE CONCERNS? I THINK MAYBE MORE THE WAY TO TAKE THIS WOULD BE IF THE GARAGE DOOR IS OPEN.
THESE ARE THE NEW RULES THAT YOU NEED TO FOLLOW AROUND THAT. AND MAYBE IT'S NO RADIO OR NO AMPLIFIED MUSIC FROM INSIDE THE INSIDE THE THE BUILDING. DURING THE TIME THAT THE GARAGE DOOR IS OPEN, I GUESS I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF NOISE IS OTHERWISE WITHIN THIS KIND OF FACILITY, WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, CLINKING. YEAH, CRASHING. I MEAN, I THINK, I THINK THE BIG THINGS TO TYPICALLY THE BIG, YOU KNOW, BIG NOISES IS KIND OF THE, THE WEIGHTS BEING MOVED AROUND, BUT ALSO THEN IT'S THE MUSIC THAT GETS SOMETIMES GET PLAYED ON TOP OF THAT, RIGHT? SO I THINK IN THEORY, I'M IN FAVOR OF STAFF RECOMMENDED FOR THIS ENTIRE THING. I THINK I'M JUST ON THE CONDITION OF THE WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY HERE. SO JUST TO CLEAR THE AIR WHERE I'M AT WITH IT, SO IS IT YOU'RE THINKING LIKE A TIME LIMIT? IS IT, YOU KNOW, FROM 8 A.M. TO 6 P.M. IS OKAY TO HAVE THE DOOR OPEN WHEN IT'S BUSY AND BUSINESSES ARE OPERATING? THERE'S OTHER NOISE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ANYWAY, BUT NOT HAVING THE DOOR OPEN AT 5 A.M. WITH MUSIC PLAYING. RIGHT. SO IF YOU DID AN 8 TO 5 OR 8 TO 6, THEY PROBABLY WANT THE EVENINGS TO ON THE WEEKENDS, I DON'T KNOW. BUT SETTING SOMETHING THAT IS WE CAN DO SOMETHING WIDER LIKE WAS MENTIONED AND THEY CAN WORK TO LIMIT IT, TO NARROW IT IF, IF IT'S. YEAH. SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? SO YEAH, WE HAVE TO WRITE THAT INTO THAT STAFF HAS THE AUTHORITY TO RESTRICT HOURS FURTHER, RIGHT? IT BECOMES A PROBLEM. IS THAT WHERE EVERYBODY ELSE'S MIND IS THAT REASONABLENESS? LIKE HERE'S A TIME WINDOW. AND THEN STAFF HAS THE ABILITY TO SHIFT AND MOVE. AND THIS WOULD JUST BE HOURS THAT THE GARAGE DOOR IS ALLOWED TO BE OPEN OR I DON'T KNOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK? I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO SKIN THAT CAT. BUT I WOULD SAY LIKE BETWEEN THESE HOURS, THAT'S GREAT, BUT STAFF CAN DEPEND ON HOW THINGS WORK OUT, HAS THE ABILITY TO SHIFT THOSE NUMBERS. OKAY. WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS? I AM I'M TRYING TO THINK WHAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE FOR THE HOURS. DO WE SAY 8 A.M. TO MIDNIGHT? NO. ARE WE SAYING NO? YEAH. RIGHT. BUT I'M. YEAH. BUT I MEAN, DO YOU DO YOU HAVE DO YOU HAVE A MOTION THAT MIGHT INCLUDE TO INCLUDE OKAY. TO INCLUDE SOME
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TIMES. YEAH. SO I'LL MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THE STATED CONDITIONS WITH ONE ADDITIONAL CONDITION THAT THE GARAGE DOOR, WHEN USED DURING THE SEASON THAT IT'S AVAILABLE FOR USE, THAT IT IS AVAILABLE BETWEEN A STATED TIME LIMIT OF 8 A.M. TO 6 P.M. ALLOWING STAFF TO MOVE THOSE NUMBERS AS NEEDED IN THE EVENT, IN THE EVENT OF ANY COMPLAINTS FROM NEIGHBORHOOD.RIGHT? OKAY, I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, AND THIS IS JUST THE HOURS THAT THE GARAGE DOOR CAN BE OPEN. THAT'S THE ADDITIONAL CONDITION I'VE GOT.
JUST AND IF ANYBODY WANTS TO SHIFT THOSE NUMBERS, PLEASE. YOU SAID IT VERY ELOQUENTLY.
YEAH, WELL, AND MAYBE WE SHOULD ASK THE APPLICANT, DOES THAT SEEM DOES THAT SEEM FAIR AND REASONABLE? WHAT WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED? YES, ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. OKAY, GREAT. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? SEEING NONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. AYE.
THOSE OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. CONGRATULATIONS. GREAT. THANK YOU. WITH THAT, WE WILL NOW
[3. Case No. CD2026-039: Interim Use Permit request for Food Vending (Food Truck) at 225 Main Street North]
MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT PUBLIC HEARING, WHICH IS CASE 2026-039. AN INTERIM USE PERMIT REQUEST FOR FOOD VENDING FOOD TRUCK AT 225 MAIN STREET NORTH. YEAH. SO HERE WE HAVE AN IEP FOR SEASONAL OUTDOOR SALES, FOOD VENDING, AND THE LOT THAT IS ADJACENT TO THE RIVER SIREN.THEY'RE ASKING FOR THE BE CALLED THE TACOS TRUCK TO ARRIVE ON SITE AROUND 2 P.M.
OPERATE FROM ABOUT 3 P.M. TO APPROXIMATELY TEN UP TO SEVEN DAYS PER WEEK. SO AS I'M SURE YOU'RE ALL AWARE, THE GOOD EGG FOOD TRUCK IS A SEMI-PERMANENT FIXTURE ON THAT LOT. AND PER THE CODE, THE. THE LINE IN THE CODE SAYS THAT ONLY ONE SEASONAL FOOD VENDING BUSINESS MAY OPERATE ON A SITE AT. AT ANY GIVEN TIME, ONLY ONE. SO THE INTENTION HERE FROM THE APPLICANT IS TO CRAFT THEIR HOURS OF OPERATION SUCH THAT THEY ARE ONLY OPEN WHEN THE GOOD EGG IS CLOSED BECAUSE THE GOOD EGG CEASES THEIR DAILY OPERATIONS AT ABOUT TWO, WHICH IS ABOUT WHEN THIS TRUCK WOULD ARRIVE, AND THEN THEY WOULD DO SOME PREP AND START, YOU KNOW, ROUGHLY AN HOUR LATER THEY WOULD LEAVE THE SITE EACH NIGHT. SO NOT STAYING OVERNIGHT LIKE THE GOOD EGG DOES. THAT ALSO MEANS THAT THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO GET DESIGN REVIEW, SINCE THEY ARE NOT A PERMANENT FIXTURE HERE, THEY JUST PULL INTO A PARKING SPACE AND THEN LEAVE AFTER THEY'RE FINISHED WITH OPERATIONS. NOW IT WOULD CONSUME ONE OF THOSE PARKING SPACES DURING ITS OPERATION. AND JUST LIKE WITH THE PREVIOUS CASE, YOU KNOW, WE WE WOULD SEE A REDUCTION IN AVAILABLE PARKING. THAT PARKING LOT IS, I BELIEVE, INSUFFICIENT ANYWAY, FOR EVERYTHING THE RIVER SIREN WOULD TECHNICALLY BE REQUIRED TO HAVE. BUT AGAIN, DURING THAT DOWNTOWN PARKING AREA. SO WE CAN CONSIDER THAT TO BE SUFFICIENT TO COVER. THIS IS THEIR PROPOSED SITE PLAN. AS YOU CAN SEE, THE. THIS TRUCK WOULD BE OVER UP AGAINST WATER STREET FACING. THAT WAY THE FOOD WINDOW IS ON THAT THAT SIDE THERE. SO YOU CAN SEE IT WOULD FACE OUT TOWARD THE STREET FROM THAT SPOT. THE TRUCK LOOKS LIKE THIS. OH, I DIDN'T PUT MORE THAN ONE PICTURE IN THERE. AGAIN, NOT SUBJECT TO DESIGN REVIEW, BUT I THINK IT LOOKS, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS LIKE A FOOD TRUCK STAFF FEEL THAT SINCE THEY'RE MAKING THIS GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO OPERATE OUTSIDE OF THE HOURS THAT THE GOOD EGG IS OPERATING, WE THINK THAT'S REASONABLE TO CONFORM WITH THE ZONING REGULATIONS, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THAT PARTICULAR LINE IS IS WRITTEN IN A SOMEWHAT AMBIGUOUS WAY. IT COULD BE READ AS ONLY ONE CAN BE THERE, PERIOD. AND IF THE GOOD EGG STAYS OVERNIGHT, TOO BAD. BUT THE GOOD EGG'S NOT OPEN AND THEORETICALLY IT COULD LEAVE. THEY JUST DECIDED TO TO APPLY TO NOT HAVE TO. SO AND THAT'S SORT OF THE TRADE OFF THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR THERE. AS WITH A LOT OF THE FOOD TRUCK, SEASONAL FOOD VENDING IUPS, GENERALLY WE LOOK AT ABOUT A YEARLY RENEWAL WITH THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR. SO THEY INTEND TO OPERATE AS FAR AS WE KNOW, AS LONG AS THEY CAN. OF COURSE, IF THEY CHANGE THOSE TERMS, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK AND AMEND THEIR IEP WITH YOU ALL. SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL HERE WITH THE AGAIN, KIND OF THE BOILERPLATE CONDITIONS ON THIS ONE. LIKE I SAID, ANNUAL RENEWAL. THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR, HEALTH, COUNTY HEALTH, OFFICIAL APPROVALS, ALL THOSE THINGS.
I'LL STAND FOR ANY QUESTIONS. WONDERFUL. DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? GREAT. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. IS THE APPLICANT HERE? DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT YOU WISH TO ADD? COME ON FORWARD AND NAME, NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE FOR THE RECORD PLEASE. YEAH THANK YOU. I'M BRIAN CARLSON, I'M THE OWNER OF RIVERSIDE BREWING AT 225 MAIN STREET NORTH, ALSO STILLWATER RESIDENT. 1120 ALBERTSON DRIVE. YEAH, I DON'T HAVE MUCH MORE TO ADD. WE LOVE THE GOOD EGG.
THEY'RE FANTASTIC. THEY'VE BEEN GREAT PARTNERS OF OURS. THEIR THEIR PRIME BUSINESS HOURS ARE
[00:25:05]
FROM 8 A.M. TO TO PROBABLY UNTIL NOON. BUT THEY DO GET A LUNCH, A LITTLE BIT OF A LUNCH RUSH AS WELL. ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE'VE HAD IS SOMETIMES THEY RUN OUT OF FOOD AND THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO STAY OPEN WHEN OUR PRIME HOURS HITS AT LIKE HAPPY HOUR AND BEYOND.AND THEN THEY, THEY TYPICALLY SHUT DOWN AROUND 8 P.M. AND THERE'S TIMES WHEN WE HAVE PATRONS THAT ARE LOOKING FOR FOOD AND THEN END UP GOING ELSEWHERE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER. SO WE THOUGHT THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD COMPROMISE TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, WE LOVE THE GOOD EGG. WE WANT TO KEEP THEM THERE. BUT THEN IF WE WERE ABLE TO BRING IN ANOTHER VENDOR THAT COULD SUPPORT THAT LATER, YOU KNOW, DINNER EVENING RUSH, THAT WOULD BE SUPER HELPFUL FOR US AS WELL. OKAY, GREAT. SO GOOD. EGG TYPICALLY OPERATES UNTIL ABOUT NOON, BUT SOMETIMES AROUND UNTIL ABOUT TWO. WELL, THEIR, THEIR PRIME HOURS ARE FROM LIKE 8 A.M. UNTIL NOON. BUT THEY, THEY RIGHT NOW THEY STAY OPEN DEPENDING ON THE DAY. SOMETIMES THEY SHUT DOWN AT NOON AND THEN THEY OPEN BACK UP AT 5 P.M. BUT THEN THEY CLOSE AT 8 P.M. AND YEAH, SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A GAP BETWEEN THEIR. ALSO. YEAH. AND SO, SO THEIR HOURS ARE, YOU KNOW, 8 A.M. UNTIL WHENEVER THEY FEEL LIKE CLOSING, WHICH IS TYPICALLY AROUND 5:00 MOST DAYS. AND THEN EVERY NOW AND THEN THEY ARE, THEY DO STAY OPEN UNTIL LIKE EIGHT. AND THAT TYPICALLY ON A FRIDAY OR SATURDAY, IF THEY HAVEN'T RUN OUT OF FOOD. RIGHT. SO AS PART OF THIS PROPOSAL IS FOR THE CITY OR FOR YOU AS THE LANDLORD TO CURTAIL THE GOOD EGGS, HOURS OF OPERATIONS. YEAH. SO THE PROPOSAL WOULD BE THAT LIKE, IF THERE WERE, IF WE DID HAVE IF WE WERE ALLOWED TWO TRUCKS TO BE ON SITE AT THE SAME TIME, ONLY ONE WOULD BE OPEN FOR BUSINESS. THE GOOD EGG IS A TRAILER. THEY'RE NOT A TRUCK. THEY CAN JUST EASILY HOP IN AND DRIVE AWAY FROM US. AND THEY I KNOW THEY GOT HPC APPROVAL BASED ON THE DESIGN AND EVERYTHING, IN ORDER TO KEEP THEIR TRUCK PARKED THERE OVERNIGHT. AND SO WITH RESPECT TO THAT AND, AND THEIR CORE BUSINESS BEING MORE OF THAT MORNING, YOU KNOW, RUSH AND HAVING TROUBLE SUSTAINING WHEN OUR BUSINESS IS GETTING BUSIER AND BUSIER. THAT'S WHY WE MADE, WE REQUESTED THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE. I GUESS THEY WOULD BE PARKED THERE AT THE SAME TIME, BUT ONLY ONE OF THEM WOULD BE IN OPERATION, AND THEN THE OTHER TRUCK WOULD COME IN EVERY DAY AT 2 P.M. AND THEN LEAVE WHEN THEY CLOSE AT, YOU KNOW, I, I WOULD WE CLOSE THE LATEST, WE STAY OPEN AS 11 P.M. AND I WOULD IMAGINE THEY WOULD NOT STAY THERE MUCH LONGER THAN THAT. IF, IF AT ALL, THEY MIGHT SHUT DOWN EVEN BEFORE THAT, BUT THEN LEAVE BY LEAVE OVERNIGHT.
THEY'RE THEY'RE BASED IN SAINT PAUL. SO THE OWNER OF CHULA TACOS WOULD JUST DRIVE THE TRUCK BACK TO HIS HOUSE THAT EVENING. SO YOU'RE PROPOSING THEN? WELL, MAYBE I NEED TO DIRECT THE QUESTION TO JEFF. SO I'LL MAKE IT A FREE FOR ALL QUESTION. THE GOOD EGG HAS A EIOPE WITH THE CITY. AND DO YOU KNOW OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEADS WHETHER THAT EIOPE STIPULATES ITS BUSINESS HOURS? I ASSUME IT DOES. I DON'T HAVE THOSE IN FRONT OF ME, BUT I COULD I COULD LOOK WHILE WE'RE TALKING AS WELL. OKAY. AND YEAH, AND I, I DO NOT KNOW IF IT DOES. AND THAT'S THE ADVANTAGE OF THE EIOPE IS THAT IT COULD ALSO BE UPDATED THE NEXT TIME THEY COME IN FOR LICENSE RENEWAL. YEAH. OKAY. DO WE HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? GREAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WITH THAT, I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANYONE WISHING TO TESTIFY ON THIS ITEM. NOW IS THE TIME TO COME FORWARD. NOW WOULD BE THE TIME TO COME FORWARD FOR 2026 039. SEEING NO ONE, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONERS, WHAT DO WE THINK? GET THE CONVERSATION GOING. I CAN MOTION MOVED. YEAH. SO MOTION TO APPROVE CITY 2026 039. PART OF THE REASON I GO THAT ROUTE IS THIS NOT ONLY SERVES A LOCAL BUSINESS, BUT ALSO PROVIDES OPPORTUNITY FOR LATER IN THE AFTERNOON FOR QUICK SERVE, FOR PEOPLE COMING
[00:30:02]
THROUGH THE LOOP TRAILS AND THE PARKS DOWN THERE. SO IT KIND OF BENEFITS MULTIPLE CONSTITUENCIES IN MY MIND. SO THAT'S WHY I MOVED TO APPROVE THAT WITH THE CONDITION STATED, OKAY, I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND HERE. FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM. I HAVE SOME HEARTBURN. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT TACOS, BUT I HAVE SOME HEARTBURN ABOUT TWO THINGS. THE FIRST IS THE AND I, I GUESS I WOULD ENCOURAGE THAT BETWEEN NOW AND THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING, THAT WE DO A DEEPER DIVE INTO THE ORDINANCE, THE FOOD TRUCK ORDINANCE, WHICH WASN'T PASSED THAT LONG AGO. AND MY RECOLLECTION MAYBE I WAS ON HPC THEN, BUT MY RECOLLECTION WAS THAT IT WAS NOT SO MUCH THE HOURS OF OPERATION AS KIND OF A DENSITY ON FOOD TRUCK ISSUE. SO I DON'T ALWAYS REMEMBER THINGS CORRECTLY. BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE'S SOME ADMINISTRATIVE, YOU KNOW, RECORD OR LEGISLATIVE RECORD THAT SPEAKS TO THE INTENT OF THAT PARTICULAR ORDINANCE, I WOULD ENCOURAGE STAFF, THE CITY ATTORNEY, WHOEVER THE APPROPRIATE PARTY IS, TO TAKE A TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. THE THE SECOND CONCERN THAT I HAVE IS I THINK WE NEED TO GET OUR. IF WE'RE SATISFIED THAT. THAT THE ORDINANCE ITSELF IS BEING MET BY HAVING. BY LIMITING THE HOURS OF OPERATIONS OF BOTH. OF BOTH FACILITIES, THE GOOD EGG AND THE. AND THE TACO TRUCK, THEN I THINK WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO STATE THE HOURS OF OPERATION IN THIS PARTICULAR. I. AND THEN ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT THE GOOD EGGS IOPE TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT OPERATING AT THE AT THE SAME TIME. OKAY. AND I THINK WE COULD DO THAT AS KIND OF A, THAT PIECE OF IT, AT LEAST AS KIND OF A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT, AS A CONDITION THAT THAT THE IOPE FOR THIS ONE HAVE SET HOURS, THE IOPE THEN FOR THE GOOD EGG BE UPDATED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NOT AN OVERLAP. YEAH. I JUST PULLED UP THE THE RESOLUTION APPROVING THE GOOD EGG. THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC HOURS LISTED THERE, SO WE COULD KIND OF UPDATE THAT WITH THE NEXT ITERATION. BUT AT A MINIMUM, YOU COULD SAY AS PART OF THIS APPROVAL SHOULD NOT OPERATE AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE GOOD EGG IS IN OPERATION. SO AT LEAST IN ONE OF THEM, YOU ARE MAKING THEM MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. YEAH, YEAH. I WOULD ACCEPT THAT AMENDMENT IMMEDIATELY. OKAY. THAT IS A CONDITION THAT COMMISSIONER NORTH, I THINK YOU WERE THE SECOND ON THAT. OKAY. WITH THAT I AM OKAY. AND I MAY BE MISREMEMBERING THIS, BUT HOW HOW WOULD THESE DO THEY INTERPLAY AT ALL WITH. I BELIEVE THERE IS RIVER SIREN HAS THC BEVERAGE OPERATION THAT HAS A FOOD COMPONENT PIECE OF THAT. DOES THAT NEED TO BE UPDATED AS WELL? LIKE I REMEMBER THAT THERE WAS A CONVERSATION RECENTLY HERE ABOUT LIKE FOOD AVAILABILITY WHEN SERVICE IS THERE AND DOES US PUTTING HOURS OF OPERATION THAT MAY NOT OVERLAP WITH THEIR SERVICE. DOES THAT IMPACT THAT? I THINK YOU CAN PROBABLY ADDRESS THIS, BUT THERE'S NO THERE'S NO FOOD SERVICE THAT YOU NECESSARILY HAVE. YOU HAVE THC BEVERAGES, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY FOOD. YEAH. WE HAVE WE OFFER LIKE PREPACKAGED PRETZELS, POPCORN, THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT WE DON'T HAVE A KITCHEN IN OUR LOCATION AT OUR LOCATION. AND I'M SO SORRY TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT BECAUSE I KNOW YOU PROBABLY HAVE A MILLION BUSINESS PAPERWORK. I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER IF THERE WAS ANYTHING IN THERE RELATED TO THAT, BUT I WOULD THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED BECAUSE THE GOOD EGG WAS THERE. WHEN WE DID GET THE LICENSE APPROVAL FOR THC. THAT'S WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT, BECAUSE I REMEMBER GOING TO THE GOOD EGG AFTERWARDS BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW IT EXISTED. AND YEAH, I REMEMBER WE TALKED ABOUT IT. SO I'M WORRIED ABOUT CHANGING SOMETHING WITH THE GOOD EGG AND IT IMPACTING OTHER AREAS OF YOUR BUSINESS IS WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT. OH, SURE. YEAH. FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IT DIDN'T CHANGE OR HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THAT. YEAH. AND I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PRETZELS AND THOSE TYPES OF, YOU KNOW, MUNCHIES THAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE. YEAH, YEAH.YOU KNOW, WHEN SERVING ALCOHOL. YEAH. WE COULD CERTAINLY CONFIRM WITH THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE AND THEIR LICENSE JUST TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NO CONFLICT BEING CREATED. PERFECT.
OKAY. YEAH, YEAH. NO UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. WE DON'T, WE DEFINITELY DON'T MAKE ANYTHING
[00:35:03]
ANY EDIBLE. THAT COULD BE CONSUMED ON SITE OTHER THAN A BEVERAGE. SO LIKE, WE'RE NOT MAKING PRETZELS OR TACOS OR GOOD EGG SANDWICHES WITH THC, THAT'S FOR SURE. OKAY, OKAY. NO.YEAH. ALL RIGHT. GREAT. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? SEEING NONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR WITH THE ADDITIONAL CONDITION THAT WE'VE ADDED ON REGARDING TRYING TO AVOID OVERLAPPING HOURS? WELL, CAN WE WHAT DOES WHAT DO WE HAVE IN THE MINUTES ABOUT THAT LAST MR. ZIMMERMAN? WHAT DO WE HAVE? YEAH. SO AS I UNDERSTOOD, THERE WERE TWO THINGS YOU WERE ASKING, AND ONE WAS MAYBE NOT PART OF THIS, BUT TO BEFORE CITY COUNCIL GET SOME CLARITY WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY AND JUST THE INTENT OF THAT SECTION OF CODE. SO THAT'S KIND OF A SIDE THING. BUT THE CONDITION, I THINK THAT WE WOULD ADD HERE WOULD BE IN THIS IAPI SAYING THAT THEY CANNOT OPERATE WHEN ANY OTHER FOOD TRUCK IS IN OPERATION ON THE SITE. THAT WOULD COVER US NOW. AND KNOWING THAT WHEN THE GOOD EGG, ASSUMING IT GETS APPROVED, WHEN THE GOOD EGG COMES OUT, KIND OF HAVE THAT SAME LANGUAGE IN THERE. I UPDATED IUP TO MAKE BOTH OF THEM KNOW THEY CAN'T OPERATE WHEN THE OTHER ONE IS OPEN. SO FOR THE TIME BEING, THE LANGUAGE WOULD BE IN THIS IUP AND THE NEXT TIME THE GOOD EGG ONE COMES UP, WHICH I THINK IS EVERY YEAR I'D HAVE TO LOOK. WE COULD ADD IT THERE AS WELL. AND DOES THAT. PUTTING THE CONDITION IN THAT WITH THOSE WORDS, DOES THAT PUT AN UNDUE BURDEN ON STAFF TO BE, YOU KNOW, CAROUSING DOWN THERE TO SEE WHETHER THERE ARE TWO FOOD OPERATIONS GOING ON AT ANY TIME? BECAUSE THE OTHER WAY WE COULD DO IT IS WITH SET HOURS, I THINK. I'D SAY OCCASIONALLY TAKING A TRIP DOWN TO RIVERSIDE OR AND CHECKING OUT THE FOOD TRUCKS IS NOT AN UNDUE BURDEN ON STAFF. WE WOULD BE OKAY WITH WITH OCCASIONALLY DROPPING IN. AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ALSO HAVE ENFORCEMENT STAFF THAT ARE OUT. AND IF THEY WERE BOTH OPEN AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK WE'D WE'D CATCH ON TO THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'D BE IN COMMUNICATION WITH THE OWNERSHIP AS WELL AND JUST SEE HOW THINGS ARE GOING. SO I THINK HAVING THAT FLEXIBILITY, KNOWING, I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S SOME PRETTY COMMON HOURS, BUT THERE PROBABLY BE SOME REGULARITY WITH THE GOOD EGG CLOSING AND THEN OPENING UP. AND SO IF WE CAN GET A PATTERN ESTABLISHED, THAT'S PROBABLY SUFFICIENT, BUT WE WOULD BE FOLLOWING UP WITH MR. CARLSON TO TO MAKE SURE THAT IS WORKING OUT. I GUESS I'D RATHER HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY THAN TRY TO PICK NOW WHAT THOSE HOURS WOULD WOULD HAVE TO BE. AND THAT WAS MY THOUGHT, BECAUSE THE IUP WILL BE RENEWED AND IF WE NEED TO CHANGE THINGS, THEN WE CAN FORMALIZE IT AT THAT POINT. BUT FOR NOW, WITH THAT SHIFT, BECAUSE THERE'S ONE EXISTING ONE BEING ADDED ON, THAT FLEXIBILITY IS GOOD FOR STAFF. OKAY? SO WITH THAT FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM. SEEING NONE, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE, AYE. THOSE OPPOSED THAT MOTION CARRIES. CONGRATULATIONS. GOOD. WE HAVE NO UNFINISHED BUSINESS. SO NEXT WE'LL MOVE INTO NEW
[4. Zoning Code Update Discussion – Use Tables]
BUSINESS WHICH INCLUDES A ZONING CODE UPDATE DISCUSSION OF THE USE TABLES. YEAH. OKAY.AS YOU ARE AWARE, OVER THE PAST NUMBER OF MONTHS, YOU'VE BEEN KIND OF HAVING THIS ALTERNATING PATTERN WHERE WE TALK ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ONE MONTH, OUR ZONING UPDATE ANOTHER. AND SO GOING BACK AND FORTH THIS MONTH, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ZONING CODE UPDATE. AND I JUST WANTED TO SHARE KIND OF NEXT, NEXT THINGS WE'VE BEEN DOING IN THE PAST. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF ZONING DISTRICTS WE HAVE AND SOME WAYS TO KIND OF MODIFY THAT. ONE THING WE WANTED TO COME BACK WITH YOU TODAY IS TO TALK ABOUT OUR USE TABLES. IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE ZONING CODE, THERE ARE TWO BIG TABLES IN THERE CURRENTLY, ONE FOR RESIDENTIAL USES AND ONE FOR NON RESIDENTIAL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS AND NONRESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. AND THEY LIST A WHOLE NUMBER OF USES DOWN THE SIDE AND ACROSS EACH DISTRICT AND SAYS IS THIS USE ALLOWED IN THIS DISTRICT. AND IF SO UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS IS IT BY RIGHT. IS IT CONDITIONAL. IS IT INTERIM ETC. AND MAYBE THIS IS WHERE I WILL JUST FLIP TO THE IMAGE. THIS IS THAT THAT TABLE. SO THIS IS THE RESIDENCE. ALL THESE USES DOWN THE SIDE AND THE ALL THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS ACROSS THE TOP. AND IT GOES ON FOR TWO PAGES. AND IT'S GOT A NUMBER OF FOOTNOTES. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NON RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, THE USE TABLE IS MUCH, MUCH, MUCH LONGER. AND THEN THERE ARE SOMETHING LIKE 28 DIFFERENT FOOTNOTES AT THE BOTTOM OR MORE.
SO THE IDEA HERE IS TO TRY TO SIMPLIFY THAT AND CLEAN THAT UP. AND A LOT OF CITIES WHO ARE
[00:40:02]
UPDATING THEIR ZONING CODES ARE REALLY TAKING A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT APPROACH. A INSTEAD OF RESIDENTIAL AND NONRESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, THEY'RE DOING IT MORE BY PRINCIPAL USE AND ACCESSORY USE. SO YOU HAVE ALL YOUR DISTRICTS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU COMPARE IT DOWN FROM THE 28 DISTRICTS WE HAVE DOWN TO SOMETHING MORE LIKE 14 AND HAVE ALL THE PRINCIPAL USES, BUT REALLY TRY TO STREAMLINE AND NOT IDENTIFY EVERY SINGLE USE THAT YOU CAN THINK OF. LIKE IN OUR CODE CURRENTLY, WE CALL OUT, YOU KNOW, SHOE STORES SEPARATE FROM A SPORTING GOODS, SEPARATE FROM A PRINT SHOP EVERY SINGLE. AND THERE'S NO REASON TO HAVE ALL OF THOSE REALLY. YOU WANT MORE OF A GENERAL RETAIL, BUT YOU CALL OUT SOMETHING IF THERE'S A SPECIAL REASON TO HAVE CERTAIN STANDARDS OR CERTAIN DISTRICT WHERE IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE ALLOWED. AND SO THE TREND HAS BEEN TOWARDS SIMPLIFYING THE NUMBER OF USES AND THE NUMBER OF DISTRICTS TO GET A MUCH MORE USABLE TABLE FOR, FOR THE PUBLIC AND FOR STAFF. IF YOU LOOK AT AND THERE'S SOME HEADINGS IN OUR CURRENT TABLES, AND THE WAY THESE ARE BROKEN OUT DON'T MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE. THESE ARE THE EXISTING GROUPINGS. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE RETAIL, RETAIL, FOOD EATING ESTABLISHMENTS, SERVICES, BANKS, ETC. AS WE LOOKED AT IT, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAYBE SIMPLIFY THIS. AND THIS IS A PROPOSED GROUPINGS, WHICH I THINK MAKE A LITTLE MORE SENSE IN LINE AGAIN, WITH A LOT OF HOW OTHER OTHER CITIES ARE TACKLING THEIR THEIR USE TABLES. AS I PUT IN THE PACKET, WHEN YOU START TO ORGANIZE IT, WE THINK WE CAN GET A MUCH MORE ORGANIZED AND STREAMLINED USE TABLE. THIS WOULD BE A PRINCIPAL USE TABLE AND IT WOULD STILL LENGTHY, BUT THIS IS ALL THE USES THAT WE COULD THINK OF AND AN ACCESSORY USE TABLE WHICH IS MUCH SHORTER. AND YOU HAVE YOUR DISTRICTS ACROSS THE TOP. AND THEN ANYONE COMING IN CAN PRETTY QUICKLY FIND THEIR USE BECAUSE THEY'RE SEPARATED AGAIN BY COMMERCIAL OFFICE, AUTOMOTIVE. AND IT'S MUCH, MUCH EASIER TO NAVIGATE.ONE THING THAT ALSO NEEDS TO BE FILLED IN THIS TABLE, AND WE'LL DO THIS DOWN THE ROAD, IS REVISITING AGAIN, WHICH USES ARE PERMITTED, WHICH ARE CONDITIONAL, WHICH ARE INTERIM.
WE'LL PROBABLY WANT TO INTRODUCE A PERMITTED WITH STANDARDS. WE HAVE THIS IN THE CODE ALREADY, BUT IT'S NOT CALLED OUT. SO IF YOU SAY BED AND BREAKFAST ARE PERMITTED, BUT IN ANOTHER SECTION OF CODE YOU SAY THERE ARE SOME STANDARDS SPECIFICALLY FOR BED AND BREAKFAST. UNLESS YOU KNEW TO GO LOOK AT ANOTHER SECTION OF CODE, YOU MIGHT NOT RECOGNIZE THEIR STANDARDS TO GO WITH IT. SO MORE AND MORE CITIES ARE JUST PUTTING A A P S PERMITTED WITH STANDARDS AND ACTUALLY PUTTING A HYPERLINK TO THAT SECTION OF CODE THAT HAS BED AND BREAKFAST STANDARDS OR AUTO SERVICE STANDARDS. SO ADDING THAT IN TO MAKE IT MORE CLEAR THAT PEOPLE KNOW THERE ARE ADDITIONAL RULES AND REGULATIONS THEY SHOULD BE TRACKING IN THE CODE, WE MAY WANT TO CONSIDER FOR CERTAIN USES. HAVING A PROHIBITED INDICATION RIGHT NOW, IF THERE'S NOTHING IN THE BOX IN THE USE TABLE, IT'S IMPLIED TO BE NOT ALLOWED, BUT THERE MAY BE USES. I'M THINKING OF DATA CENTERS SPECIFICALLY WHERE IF YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY DO NOT WANT THEM EXPLICITLY SAYING THIS IS PROHIBITED BECAUSE OTHERWISE IF YOU DON'T LIST THEM, YOU FIND PEOPLE COME IN AND START TO MAKE CREATIVE ARGUMENTS AROUND, WELL, A WAREHOUSE REALLY IS A DATA CENTER AND YOU COULD FALL INTO THIS CATEGORY. SO IF YOU WANT TO AVOID DEBATES AROUND THINGS THAT MAY BE CONTROVERSIAL AND MAY BE WORTH DATA CENTER, MAYBE SOME OTHER THINGS, AND JUST SAYING IN THESE DISTRICTS, IT'S ABSOLUTELY PROHIBITED. I THINK AS WE GET INTO THE ITERATIONS OF LOOKING AT WHAT USES WE HAVE, WE PROPOSE TO PUT IN THERE. THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DISCUSS. BUT DATA CENTERS, I'VE SEEN PEOPLE TRY TO USE WAREHOUSE OR OTHER CATCHALL CATEGORIES AS A WAY TO KIND OF SLIP THEM IN. SO IF WE THERE'S A USE WE DEFINITELY DON'T WANT, CALLING IT OUT AS PROHIBITED IS KIND OF A GOOD STRATEGY. WOULD WE PUT X'S IN THE BOXES OF EVERYTHING THAT'S PROHIBITED THEN MAYBE. I MEAN, LOOK, IT STARTS TO CLUTTER UP THE PAGE, WHICH IS ONE REASON NOT TO DO IT. BUT THEN THEY WOULD ADD SOME CONFUSION LIKE THIS IS SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED. YEAH, BUT THE REST IS UP FOR DEBATE, I SUPPOSE. AND THAT'S MAYBE THE TRADE OFF. MAYBE MAYBE WE JUST HAVE A CLEAR DEFINITION OF WHAT A DATA CENTER IS AND SAY IT'S NOT IN THE USE TABLE. WE CAN WORK AROUND THAT. BUT THERE IS SOME RISK OF IF YOU IF IT'S TOO GENUINE AND LEAVE SOME THINGS OUT, YOU OPEN YOURSELF UP FOR DEBATES OVER INTERPRETATION. YEAH, YEAH. SO I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF HIGHLIGHT THE DIRECTION WE'D LIKE TO GO. WE HAVE STARTED GOING THROUGH. AND IF, IF PEOPLE HAVE COMMENTS ON SPECIFIC USES, WHAT WE PLAN TO DO IS COME BACK AND SAY, YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH THIS LIST OF HERE ARE THE USES IN THE TABLE ZONING CODE CURRENTLY. AND FOR EACH ONE, ARE WE LEAVING IT IN? ARE WE TAKING IT OUT? ARE WE GOING TO COMBINE IT WITH SOME OTHERS? ARE WE GOING TO CHANGE, CHANGE THE LANGUAGE TO GIVE YOU THAT KIND OF TRANSLATION FROM ONE EXISTING SET TO THE PROPOSED SET. THE OTHER THING WE WILL DO, AND JULIA STARTED TO HELP ME DO THIS, IS FOR ANY USE THAT WE HAVE IN THIS LEFT HAND COLUMN IN OUR NEW PROPOSED ZONING CODE, WE HAVE A DEFINITION IN OUR DEFINITION TABLE BECAUSE, AS WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER, WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION FOR A GYM. AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE A USE LISTED, BUT
[00:45:04]
WE DON'T DEFINE WHAT IT IS. AGAIN YOU RUN INTO QUESTIONS OF INTERPRETATION. IT'S JUST BECOME GOOD POLICY TO HAVE. IF YOU HAVE A USE AND YOU'RE ALLOWING IT IN CERTAIN DISTRICTS, SAY EXACTLY WHAT THAT IS OR WHAT IT IS NOT AND PUT THAT IN YOUR CODE. SO THAT'S THE OTHER THING THAT WE'LL BE WORKING ON. SO AS WE AND WE HAVE THAT FOR SOME USES, BUT FOR MOST WE DO NOT. I THINK IN RECENT YEARS, AS WE'VE ADDED USES, CANNABIS USES ALL HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC DEFINITION. THERE HAVE BEEN SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE IN RECENT YEARS, AND WE HAVE ADDED THOSE. BUT SOME OF THE MORE BASIC DEFINITIONS WE HAVE NOT. BUT WE DEFINITELY ARE GOING TO PARE DOWN THAT LIST AND MAKE IT A MORE REASONABLE, STREAMLINED SET. SO I WANTED TO GET THAT IN FRONT OF YOU AND JUST GET ANY THOUGHTS ON KIND OF THAT APPROACH TO ORGANIZATION. AND AGAIN, AS WE START TO MOVE FORWARD, WE'D COME BACK WITH SPECIFICS THAT WE CAN DRILL DOWN INTO. IS THIS THE RIGHT USE? AND THE SECOND DISCUSSION ABOUT WHICH DISTRICT DOES IT GO IN? AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHERE IT'S ALLOWED TODAY, AND THEN DEBATE WHETHER WE EXPANDED OR CONTRACTED OR ADD DIFFERENT ALLOWANCES AND THINGS. BUT THE FIRST TASK IS REALLY, WHAT ARE THE USES THAT WE THINK NEED TO BE IN THIS TABLE? AND ARE WE COVERING A THINGS THAT ARE IN STILLWATER CURRENTLY, OR THINGS THAT WE ANTICIPATE REASONABLY MIGHT COME IN AND WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE WE HAVE COVERED. THERE'LL ALWAYS BE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE NOT THINKING OF, AND WE CAN ALWAYS AMEND THE CODE AND ADD SOMETHING, BUT THE MORE WE CAN THINK OF NOW, THE BETTER OFF WE'LL BE. SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU DO AWAY WITH THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL. ALL OF THE DISTRICTS WOULD BE LISTED ACROSS. YEAH, IF WE CAN GET IT DOWN AS WE PROPOSED TO DO TO ABOUT 14, YOU CAN FIT IT IN ONE TABLE RATHER THAN THE 28 WHERE YOU HAVE TO BREAK IT UP BECAUSE THERE'S JUST SO MANY, SO MANY DIFFERENT DISTRICTS, YOU CAN KEEP IT IN ONE. IT'S MUCH MORE EASY FOR PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH AND UNDERSTAND. I MEAN, THAT MAKES TONS OF SENSE TO ME. IF WE CAN DO THE 14. YEAH, THAT'S OUR GOAL. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS, FEEDBACK? NO, JUST I DO AGREE WITH KEEPING IT SIMPLE, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST. AND, AND SO I DO THINK THAT'S A GOOD DIRECTION. YOU BEAT THE QUESTION TO THE PUNCH. I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU BROUGHT UP THE DATA CENTER BECAUSE AS WE SIMPLIFY, YOU KNOW, IS THERE AN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OR SOMETHING IN FIVE YEARS, MAYBE SOMETHING ELSE WOULD BE THE NEW DATA CENTER OF THE HOT TOPIC. AND SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CAN ADDRESS THAT AS WE SIMPLIFY AS WELL. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S WHERE BEING CLEAR ABOUT THE DEFINITIONS OF THE USES WE'RE PUTTING IN THERE, AND THEN ANTICIPATING THINGS THAT WE MAYBE DON'T WANT, NEITHER LISTING THEM EXPLICITLY OR HAVING A WAY TO CALL THEM OUT. SO PEOPLE DON'T TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AN OVERSIGHT TO THE PROHIBITED. AND I DON'T KNOW THE RIGHT ANSWER, I DO, I DO SHARE THE CONCERN OF LIKE, IF IT'S LISTED AS PROHIBITED, BUT WE DON'T SAY IT FOR EVERYTHING. LIKE, SO I, I GUESS I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A BETTER THIRD OPTION. OTHERWISE, I WOULD SUGGEST EITHER NOT USING IT OR LIKE DOING IT CONSISTENTLY. I THINK THE OTHER OPTIONS EITHER LEAVE THEM OUT OF THE TABLE OR PUT EVERYTHING THAT'S PROHIBITED AND MARKET. THE THIRD OPTION MIGHT BE IN THE TEXT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE TABLE JUST IN A TEXT BEING CLEAR ABOUT CERTAIN USES THAT ARE PROHIBITED AND HAVE IT JUST CALLED OUT, THEN IT'S NOT IN THE TABLE, BUT IT IS ADDRESSED.THAT MAY BE A COMPROMISE APPROACH. THE OTHER KIND OF RELATED CONCERN IS. TODAY WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT OUR ZONING CODE AND INSERTING THINGS WHERE WE MIGHT THINK, YEAH, IT'S GOOD TO SAY THIS IS PROHIBITED, BUT OF COURSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NEXT. CONTROVERSIAL ITEM IS GOING TO BE. YOU KNOW, THREE, FOUR YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, FROM NOW. AND SO WITH THAT IN MIND, BECAUSE WE CAN'T PREDICT THE FUTURE VERY WELL, WE MAY WANT TO SHY AWAY FROM, YOU KNOW, CALLING OUT CERTAIN THINGS THAT ARE PROHIBITED. B BECAUSE THAT SEEMS LIKE THE RIGHT ANSWER TODAY. BUT THEN WE MIGHT BE IN A BOX LATER ON. SO MY INCLINATION WOULD BE IS IF THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT THE COMMUNITY AGREES WE DON'T WANT IN OUR COMMUNITY, THEN. WE CAN DO THAT BY, YOU KNOW, ORDINANCE OR TIGHTENING UP OUR DEFINITIONS. YEAH. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS? I THINK WHAT COMMISSIONER STEINWALL JUST MENTIONED WAS WHERE MY MIND WAS AT WITH THE FIDELITY. I'M TRYING TO PRE FACE EVERYTHING THAT WE COULD BE THINKING OF IF THERE'S ANOTHER METHOD TO IT. SO YOU COVERED IT.
SO I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY. BUT THANK YOU FOR THE ATTABOY. AWESOME. GREAT. THANK YOU. AND
[5. Outdoor Commercial Recreation Uses in the Neighborhood Commercial District – Discussion, no packet materials]
[00:50:02]
THEN I WILL JUST INTRODUCE OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM, IF THAT IF THAT'S OKAY. SO WE HAD A KIND OF A LAST MINUTE REQUEST TO BRING BEFORE YOU A CONCEPT THAT WAS FLOATED BY STAFF. AND I THINK IT'S WORTH BRINGING TO THE COMMISSION TO KIND OF ADDRESS. WE HAVE SOME INDIVIDUALS HERE THAT TALKED ABOUT, I THINK A COUPLE YEARS AGO, SOME OUTDOOR AND OUTDOOR SAUNA WAS PROPOSED DOWN AT THE DOCK CAFE TERRACE. IT WAS APPROVED UNDER AN IUP IN THE COMMERCIAL BUSINESS DISTRICT OR CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT NEVER GOT INSTALLED. THAT OPPORTUNITY IS LEFT. SAME GROUP IS COMING BACK LOOKING TO DO A SIMILAR TYPE OF USE BUT IN A DIFFERENT DISTRICT. IN A NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, THEY HAVE A LOCATION AND THEY'LL THEY'LL SHOW YOU SOME IMAGES ABOUT WHAT THAT COULD BE. THE CHALLENGE IS WE DON'T HAVE TO OUR POINT, WE JUST TALKED. WE DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC USE THAT KIND OF MATCHES AN OUTDOOR SAUNA.PROBABLY THE CLOSEST IS AN OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL RECREATION OR AN OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL ENTERTAINMENT TYPE USE. NEITHER OF THOSE ARE CURRENTLY ALLOWED IN A NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. SO THE PROPOSAL IS TO AMEND THE ZONING FROM THE FROM THE PARTY IS TO AMEND THE ZONING TEXT TO ALLOW THE SAUNA USE IN THAT DISTRICT. AND IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT AS STAFF, WE WOULD NOT WANT TO JUST BLANKET SAY, OKAY, NOW ALL OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL RECREATION IS ALLOWED IN THAT DISTRICT BECAUSE THAT'S A VERY WIDE NET AND YOU COULD BE OPENING UP TO THINGS YOU'RE NOT NEVER THOUGHT OF NOW. SO IF THERE WAS INTEREST IN SAYING THIS OUTDOOR SAUNA USE IS ONE THAT SEEMS TO FIT THE PURPOSE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. AND I PUT THE, THE, THE PURPOSE STATEMENT FROM OUR ZONING CODE HERE. YOU KNOW, IT'S ABOUT SUPPORTING SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL IN A NEIGHBORHOOD SETTING, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WALK UP, USE THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. IF WE THINK A OUTDOOR SAUNA USE MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE, THEN I THINK WE'D NOT JUST WANT TO OPEN UP TO ANY OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL, BUT CREATE A SPECIFIC USE THAT IS SAUNA OR SOMETHING ELSE AND ONLY ALLOW THAT USE, PROBABLY BY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. SO THAT IS KIND OF IF THERE'S A POSITIVE RESPONSE, WE FEEL THIS HAS SOME LEGS WHERE WE'D PROBABLY GO AND I'LL HAVE THE, THE, THE PROPOSERS, THEY'RE NOT APPLICANTS YET COME UP AND KIND OF WALK YOU THROUGH KIND OF THEIR, THEIR VISION FOR, FOR WHAT THIS IDEA COULD LOOK LIKE. AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT IF THERE, IF IT'S WORTH BRINGING FORWARD AS A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT. AGAIN, WE'RE NOT COMMITTING TO APPROVING IT, BUT SAYING IF IT HAS SOME SOME MERIT, WE'D BE OPEN TO LOOKING AT A TEXT AMENDMENT DOWN THE ROAD. SO I'LL INVITE THEM TO COME UP AND WALK THROUGH, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE SOME DISCUSSION AROUND IT. THANKS. YOU CAN FORWARD BACK. GOOD EVENING. THANKS FOR HAVING US. YEP. I RECOGNIZE ALL OF YOU LAST TIME. THIS IS MY BUSINESS PARTNER, PHIL GRAZULIS. WHAT'S YOUR ADDRESS? YOU NEED HIS ADDRESS? YEAH. NAME AND ADDRESS FOR BOTH OF YOU. 1941 QUINTON AVENUE, LAKELAND, SAINT CROIX BEACH. AND MY NAME IS KEITH DOUGLAS. I'M THE CO-OWNER OF NOMAD SAUNA. I LIVE AT 15183 UPPER 63RD STREET NORTH OVER THERE. JUST MOVED IN FRIDAY. VERY EXCITED. CONGRATS. MY DAUGHTER IONA BACK THERE GOES TO LILY LAKE AND LOVES IT. SO YEAH, WE'RE WE'RE EXCITED TO BE BACK. THE DOCK THING WAS A REALLY FUN OPPORTUNITY. APPRECIATE THE THE APPROVAL ON THAT ONE. THAT ONE DIDN'T COME TO FRUITION DUE TO A SAFETY MEASURE THAT WE FIGURED THAT WE WE WEREN'T COMFORTABLE WITH.
THERE WAS NO INDOOR AREA FOR PATRONS TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE AND GET OUT OF THE WEATHER. AND IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER, WHEN YOU'RE SWEATING LIKE THAT, FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, SAFETY IS FIRST AND FOREMOST, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO EXPERIENTIAL STUFF LIKE THAT. SO THAT WAS US THAT DIDN'T DO IT, YOU KNOW? SO WE'RE BACK. WE LOVE THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, THIS 823 FOURTH STREET SOUTH. IT'S WHERE SO WHAT WINE IS, IT'S WHERE TIPSY PIES WAS. YOU AND ME, MEISTER'S, THAT KIND OF LITTLE AREA RIGHT THERE. WE'VE BEEN ON THE WE'VE BEEN SCOUTING FOR A LONG TIME, TRYING TO FIND A PLACE THAT IS APPROPRIATE THAT MATCHES OUR VIBE AND, YOU KNOW, THE OFFERING THAT WE WANT, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT'S INTEGRATED INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING THAT DRIVES TOURISM. WE LOVE GETTING TO KNOW THE PEOPLE THAT ARE EXPERIENCING THE SAUNA AND CONTRAST THERAPY, THAT HAVE A HEALTH FORWARD KIND OF MINDSET.
IT'S JUST THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT WE GET ALONG WITH AND THE PEOPLE THAT WE REALLY ENJOY SERVING. MOST OF OUR BUSINESS CURRENTLY IS IN MANUFACTURING. WE BUILD AND SELL CUSTOM BARREL SAUNAS. WE ALSO DO HORSE TRAILERS, CATTLE TRAILERS. WE DO FLOATING SAUNAS, RESIDENTIAL, BACKYARD COMMERCIAL. WE PUT THEM ON ROOFTOPS, VARIOUS SIZES. WE'RE ALMOST IN ALL THE 48
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STATES. WE'RE A TEAM OF TEN. WE JUST MOVED OVER TO NORTH HUDSON AND WE'RE PRETTY INTEGRATED IN THAT COMMUNITY NOW. HE AND I ARE LIVING ON THIS SIDE. WE SAW THIS OPPORTUNITY TO GET BACK INTO THE EXPERIENTIAL SIDE, WHICH IS REALLY WHERE OUR PASSION FOR SAUNA CAME FROM.THIS GUY, BEFORE I MET HIM, WAS ONE OF THE FIRST MOBILE SAUNA RENTAL COMPANIES IN THE NATION.
HE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT. SO WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE FUTURE ENTAIL AS FAR AS ZONING AND WHAT'S THE NEXT BIG SURPRISE? I MEAN, TEN YEARS AGO, WHO KNEW, YOU KNOW, THE SAUNA INDUSTRY WOULD BE WHERE IT'S AT NOW, WHICH IS PRETTY, PRETTY CRAZY. MOSTLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW, IN THE MARKET IS BRICK AND MORTAR LOCATIONS WHERE YOU GO INSIDE AND YOU SIT IN A ROOM AND YOU HAVE YOUR SAUNA EXPERIENCE AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, SOME CONTRAST THERAPY TYPE THING. ONE OF THE STAPLES AND FOUNDATIONS OF THE BUSINESS THAT WE HAVE, WHETHER IT'S IN MANUFACTURING OR EXPERIENTIAL SAUNA, IS THE FACT THAT WE DO THIS OUTDOORS. WE WANT PEOPLE TO REENGAGE WITH NATURE. WE ESPECIALLY UP HERE IN THE NORTH, WE WANT PEOPLE TO ENJOY WINTER.
WE DON'T WANT THEM TO HUDDLE UP INSIDE. WE WANT TO SHOW THEM A HEALTH FORWARD WAY TO BE ABLE TO BUILD COMMUNITY AND TO USE THIS REALLY AMAZING, LIKE HEALTH ADVANTAGE. YOU KNOW, THERE'S PEOPLE THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW, LOWER EXTREMITY INJURIES OR THEY'RE GETTING OLDER, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF LIKE MALADY THAT DOESN'T ALLOW THEM TO, YOU KNOW, GO TO A GYM OR TO BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, STAY HEALTHY OR TO GET OUT AND JUST ENGAGE WITH PEOPLE. AND SAUNA REALLY DOES ALLOW FOR THAT KIND OF EXPERIENCE. SO WE BRING TO YOU TODAY OUR, OUR IDEA FOR BRINGING THAT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE YOU AND ME CAFE. SORRY. YOU MIGHT BE THE WAY TO GO. OH. OH, OKAY. SORRY. I HAVE A MASTER'S DEGREE IN CYBERSECURITY, BUT I CAN'T FIGURE THIS. I'LL JUST USE THE MOUSE IS GOOD. IT'S A PDF. THAT'S MY FAULT. SO THAT'S ME BEING FANCY. AGAIN, THIS IS JUST. THIS IS US. WE'RE LOOKING TO OCCUPY THE LOWER LEVEL SPACE BELOW. SO WHAT? WINE? IF I GO TOO FAST, JUST YELL AT ME AND I'LL BRING IT BACK. AGAIN, WE HAVE A TRACK RECORD WITH YOU GUYS. WE. WE DID GET A WOOD FIRED UNIT APPROVED DOWN AT THE DOCK PREVIOUSLY. IF ANYTHING, OUR MANUFACTURING PROCESS, WE DO BUILD OUR OWN UNITS. WE DON'T USE ANY KITS. WE DON'T USE ANY YOU KNOW, WE WE DON'T HAVE ANY INSULATION IN OUR UNITS. WE DON'T HAVE ANY FOREIGN MATERIALS. THERE'S, YOU KNOW, I, I WAS IN THE MILITARY FOR 20 YEARS. SO LIKE I WAS EXPOSED TO A LOT OF BURN PITS. THIS GUY IS A, YOU KNOW, HAS HIS OWN ISSUES. AND SO, SO, YOU KNOW, GOOD TO KNOW. POINT BEING, YOU KNOW, THE, THE HEALTH EXPERIENCE AND LIKE IT BEING A HEALTHY ENVIRONMENT THAT YOU'RE IN IS REALLY CRITICAL TO US AND HIM BEING THE BUILDER. HE'S DONE A FANTASTIC JOB OF, OF MAKING THAT HAPPEN. SO IF ANYTHING, OUR, OUR, OUR PRODUCTS ARE BETTER THAN THEY WERE TWO YEARS AGO. THE ASS TONIGHT IS, YOU KNOW, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND THEN THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO ALLOW US TO ESSENTIALLY PUT TWO OF THESE BARREL SAUNAS OUTSIDE. IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT AREA, THERE'S A LITTLE GARDEN SEATING AREA RIGHT OUTSIDE OF TIPSY PIES AND THE AND I'LL SHOW YOU A RENDERING HERE, BUT THE UNITS WOULD FIT THERE. VERY PRETTY. THE UNITS WOULD FIT IN.
THEY'RE NOT VERY SQUARE. THEY'RE, THEY'RE ROUND. THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOOD LOOKING UNITS. AND THEY WOULD FIT BEHIND THAT TREE IN BETWEEN THAT THAT HUGE TREE AND THE BUILDING, THE THE GLASS WOULD FACE TOWARDS YOU AND ME CAFE. AND THE DOORS WOULD BE RIGHT WHERE YOU COULD COME OUT OF THE BUILDING AND ESSENTIALLY GO RIGHT INTO ONE OF THE SAUNAS. THE REASON THAT WE WANT TO HAVE TWO SMALLER SAUNAS INSTEAD OF ONE BIGGER SAUNA, IS FOR EXPERIENTIAL DELIVERY. WE CAN WE CAN PUT THEM AT DIFFERENT TEMPERATURES. NOT EVERYBODY CAN SAUNA THE SAME. SOME PEOPLE CAN HANDLE 195 DEGREES, WHICH IS THE FEDERAL SAFETY STANDARD. AND SOME PEOPLE JUST WANT 165, WHICH IS THE MINIMUM YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO GET THE HEALTH BENEFITS FROM A SAUNA SESSION.
SO WE CAN DELIVER BOTH OF THOSE. WE CAN ALSO HAVE A SILENT SAUNA. WE CAN SET UP A SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE CAN HAVE A TRULY FINNISH, YOU KNOW, EXPERIENCE, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE ANOTHER ONE. THAT'S COMMUNITY WHERE YOU CAN SIT IN THERE AND COMMISERATE ABOUT HOW HOT IT IS AND GET THROUGH YOUR SAUNA SESSION, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THAT VARYING EXPERIENCE IS CRITICAL TO WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO DO. AND THAT'S WHY THERE'S GOING TO BE TWO OF THESE UNITS IN THAT AREA. LIKEWISE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A TRADITIONAL STYLE SAUNA, WHICH HAS WHAT YOU'VE BEEN IN IN GYMS AND SUCH, WHERE IT HAS THE THE DOUBLE LAYER AND IT'S A MORE SQUARE DESIGN THAT'S ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING ON THE BACK SIDE, VERY PRIVATE. AND THAT WOULD BE AN ALTERNATIVE EXPERIENCE FOR, FOR
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PEOPLE. THAT ONE WOULD ALSO BE, WHILE NOT 88 COMPLIANT, IT WOULD HAVE ACCESSIBILITY FOR IT SO THAT SOMEONE WITH SOME OF THOSE HINDRANCES COULD ACTUALLY GET IN THERE AND BE ABLE TO UTILIZE THIS AS WELL. THE BARRELS YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH. SO A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. SO OUR CONCEPT IS REALLY THE THE THREE SAUNAS THEMSELVES. THESE ARE THE I WON'T GO INTO TERRIBLE DETAIL ABOUT THIS, BUT WE'VE WE'VE PINED OVER HOW DO WE HOW DO WE INTEGRATE INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND NOT REALLY TURN THIS INTO LIKE A SUPER BIG COMMERCIAL TOURIST KIND OF THING AND CREATE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY COOL BUSINESSES THERE. YOU GOT YOUR ACUPUNCTURE, YOUR BARBER, YOU GOT THE BAKERY ACROSS THE STREET. I MEAN, WE ALL KNOW IT'S, IT'S A REALLY FUN, LIKE LITTLE HEARTBEAT FOR THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. AND WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO IS OVERWHELM IT, RIGHT? SO WE'VE CREATED ■A WAY FOR PEOPLE TO COME HAVE THESE EXPERIENCES WHERE THEY COME IN ABOUT EIGHT AT A TIME. SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE 24 PEOPLE COMING AT THE SAME TIME. THEY'RE GOING TO KIND OF COME IN SMALL WAVES, WHICH IS GOING TO WE THINK IS GOING TO BE NICE. SO 24 SEATS TOTAL. SO AT WINE, THERE'S GOING TO BE AN EYEGLASS STORE ON THE LOWER SIDE. AND THEN WE WOULD OWN THIS SPACE HERE WITH A TRADITIONAL SAUNA IN THE REAR AND THE TWO BARRELS OUT FRONT. MAY I MOVE ON? THIS IS THE SITE TODAY. AND THEN THE CONCEPT WILL LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS. WE USE FULL GLASS WINDOWS ON THE FRONT OF THE UNITS. AGAIN, WE THINK IT'S CRITICAL THAT PEOPLE I MEAN, SOME PEOPLE GET CLAUSTROPHOBIC, YOU KNOW, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THERE'S JUST A WAY TO LIKE ENGAGE WITH NATURE. MY WIFE'S ALSO A FLOWER FARMER, SO WE'LL PROBABLY BE PUTTING A LOT OF REALLY COOL, PRETTY PLANTS AND FLOWERS OUT HERE TO REALLY MAKE IT NATURE FORWARD. ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT SLIDE? SO SUPPORTING THIS SPACES ACCESSIBILITY. WE'VE BEEN SO ROD AND MICHELLE IN THE BUILDING BACK HERE. WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM REALLY VERY CLOSE. I'M SURE YOU KNOW THEM. AND THEY HAVE AN ARCHITECT THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GOING TO MEET ALL THE STANDARDS THAT THE CITY HAS AS FAR AS ACCESSIBILITY WITH THE CHANGING ROOMS, THE SHOWER AND THE BATHROOMS THEMSELVES. SO OBVIOUSLY WE'LL BE MEETING THOSE AND DON'T EXPECT TO ASK FOR ANYTHING OTHER. WE WILL HAVE TWO OUTDOOR SHOWERS, WHICH AREN'T SHOWERS. NOBODY'S GOING TO BE BATHING OUT HERE. THEY'RE GOING TO BE RENT STATIONS IN THE ABSENCE OF COLD PLUNGES. WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A WAY TO EXPERIENCE THAT CONTRAST BETWEEN THE HOT AND THE COLD, AND THAT'S WHAT THESE RENT STATIONS ARE GOING TO DO.THEY'RE ALSO A REALLY GREAT WAY TO ENSURE THAT THE SANITATION INSIDE OF THESE REMAINS. SO WHEN PEOPLE LEAVE, THEY DO SOMETHING ELSE. THEY CAN COME OUTSIDE, THEY CAN RINSE OFF. IT GETS THE EXCESS SWEAT AND SALT OFF, AND THEN THEY CAN GET BACK IN THE SAUNA OR GO BACK INSIDE.
SO WE WOULD HAVE ONE OF THOSE IN THE BACK AND THEN ONE IN THE FRONT. IT WOULD BE SHIELDED OFF.
NOBODY'S GOING TO BE NAKED. IT'S NOBODY'S GOING TO BE SHOWERING OR USING SOAP IN THE OUTDOOR SHOWERS. THAT'S WHAT THE INDOOR SHOWERS AND CHANGING ROOMS ARE FOR. ANY QUESTIONS THERE, PLEASE. THANK YOU. HOURS, OPERATIONS, YOU KNOW, WE'LL KIND OF DO TWO CHUNKS. WE TYPICALLY SEE THAT PEOPLE ENJOY USING THESE EARLY IN THE MORNING BEFORE WORK OR AFTER THEY DROP THE KIDS OFF AT SCHOOL, AND THEN AFTER WORK AND INTO THE NIGHT. SO WE WOULD DO SIX TO NOON, AND THEN WE'D TAKE ABOUT A THREE HOUR BREAK AND SHUT ALL THE SAUNAS DOWN, WIPE THEM DOWN, RESET EVERYTHING, AND THEN OPEN BACK UP FROM 3 TO 10 P.M. THE RETAIL PORTION INSIDE WOULD REMAIN OPEN, BUT THE SAUNAS WOULD NOT BE UTILIZED DURING THAT TIME.
SESSION LAKE IS TYPICALLY ABOUT 90 MINUTES. I CAN GO IN. WE'VE PINED OVER THIS AND WE THINK THAT THAT'S PERFECT. AND IF YOU EVER WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT, WE'D LOVE TO TELL YOU WHAT WE THINK, BUT I WON'T DO IT. NOW. THE START CADENCE IS EVERY 30 MINUTES, WE'LL HAVE AT LEAST ONE EMPLOYEE ON SHIFT. AND THEN OUR PEAK CAPACITY, AS I SAID BEFORE, IS GOING TO BE ABOUT 24 GUESTS AT THE BUSIEST OVERLAP. ANY QUESTIONS THERE, PLEASE? WE KEEP SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE LIVE HERE AND WE'RE COMMITTED TO THE COMMUNITY AND WE REALLY WANT
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THAT NEIGHBORHOOD INTEGRATION AS SUCH. OUR PRICING IS GOING TO SUPPLEMENT FOR THAT OR SHOW THAT. SO INDIVIDUALS THAT LIVE IN, YOU KNOW, THE STILLWATER AREA, WE'LL HAVE THE REDUCED OR THE THE LOWER PRICE, AND IT'LL BE THE SAME ONE THAT'S OFFERED TO ANYBODY THAT'S, YOU KNOW, FIRST RESPONDERS, MILITARY TEACHERS, THE SAME AGAIN, THAT'S PART OF LIKE THE LOCAL COMMUNITY KIND OF BUILDING AND INTEGRATION THAT WE'RE VERY INTERESTED IN, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO OSTRACIZE ANYBODY ELSE FROM COMING IN. IT'S JUST THEY GOT TO PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I FEEL LIKE COVERING THIS. I'D BE BEATING A DEAD HORSE, SO I'LL JUST KIND OF MOVE ON. DID KIND OF LOOK AT WHAT THE CITY WANTS TO DO. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES, AS I WAS SPEAKING TO BEFORE, AND HOW DO WE GET PEOPLE OUTSIDE AND ENJOY WINTER AND START ENJOYING, YOU KNOW, THE BEAUTIFUL RIVER AREA THAT WE HAVE? I THINK THIS IS A REALLY FUN WAY FOR PEOPLE TO DO THAT IN THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD WITHOUT HAVING TO GO DOWN TO THE RIVER AND, YOU KNOW, GIVES THEM AN ALTERNATIVE TO BE ABLE TO EXPERIENCE THE OUTSIDE, WHICH I THINK I HOPE THAT IT SUPPORTS, YOU KNOW, THE CITY'S MISSION THERE. SO THE CONDITIONS WE'RE OFFERING, YOU KNOW, QUIET, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY AMPLIFIED NOISE OUTDOORS WHEN PEOPLE ARE SPAWNING OUTSIDE. WE DON'T PUT SPEAKERS IN OUR UNITS. WE DON'T WE DON'T HAVE SPEAKERS GOING OUTSIDE. IT'S NOT LIKE A BIG PARTY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IF ANYTHING, IT'S MEDITATIVE.PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE TALKING. IT'S GOING TO BE THE SAME AS ANYBODY SITTING, YOU KNOW, OUTDOOR AT A CAFE, YOU KNOW, IN BETWEEN SAUNA SESSIONS. THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO HAVE A LITTLE CHAT. SO THAT WILL HAPPEN. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, THERE WILL BE NO AMPLIFIED SOUND OUTDOORS. ANY LIGHTING THAT WE HAVE, WE'LL HAVE IT SHIELDED. SO IT'S NOT DISTURBING THE NEIGHBORS, THE RESIDENTS IN THE AREA. SO IT'LL BE FACING DOWN AND SHIELDED AT THAT POINT. FRANKLY, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF LIGHT WHEN IT COMES TO THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS. THE BARREL SAUNAS THEMSELVES WILL HAVE INDOOR INTERIOR LIGHTING SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE AND IT'S STILL SAFE OUT THERE. SO WE'LL HAVE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, LIKE LANDSCAPING, LIGHTING IN THE AREA. IT'S ALWAYS A PERSON TO CALL. WE LIVE IN THE AREA.
WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE THERE MOST DAYS. WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE A PHONE NUMBER. SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A CALL CENTER OR SOME KIND OF 800 NUMBER OR SOMETHING. SO IF THERE'S AN ISSUE OR A RESIDENT HAS AN ISSUE OR SOME KIND OF CONCERN, THEY'LL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO GET AHOLD OF US. WE IF YOU LET THOSE THINGS FESTER, THEY GET OUT OF CONTROL. SO WE TRULY BELIEVE IN COMMUNICATING WITH EVERYBODY AND HEARING THEM OUT. TRAFFIC ARRIVES IN EIGHTS. I THINK THAT JUST HELPS WITH THE THE PARKING SITUATION. NOTHING'S USED BEFORE. IT'S INSPECTED. OBVIOUSLY IT'S A REQUIREMENT. WE GOT TO GET THE BUILDING INSPECTION AND ALL THAT. SO WE'LL BE WORKING WITH ROD AND MICHELLE AND THE ARCHITECT TO, TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THAT. WE'VE WORKED WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT BEFORE HERE. SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE ANY BIG SURPRISES. AND WE'RE READY TO ROLL. AND THEN THE WOOD FIRED UNIT. SO ONE OF THE ONE OF THE OUTDOOR BARRELS, WE'RE PROPOSING TO HAVE IT BE A WOOD FIRED UNIT. THE OTHER TWO WOULD BE ELECTRIC. THE THE WOOD, THE WOOD FIRED UNIT IS QUITE EFFICIENT. IN FACT, WE'RE USING AN EVEN BETTER STOVE THAN WE WERE WHEN YOU APPROVED THE ONE THAT WE WERE GOING TO USE AT THE DOCK. THE MIX OF THE THE STOVE ITSELF, THE TYPE OF WOOD THAT WE BURN, AND THE FACT THAT WE KNOW HOW TO NOT OVERDO IT. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A DISTURBANCE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO BUT WE FEEL THAT THE ESTHETIC OF THAT WOOD FIRED SMELL INSIDE OF THE UNIT, THE CAMPFIRE KIND OF SOUND AND SIGHT THAT YOU THAT YOU HAVE WHEN YOU'RE IN THAT UNIT, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE REALLY GOING TO ENJOY THAT A LOT BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE SEE SAUNA EXPERIENCES MORE THAN JUST LIKE THE SENSE OF GETTING HOT. IT KIND OF CONNECTS THE VISUAL, YOU KNOW, THE SIGHT, THE SOUND, YOU KNOW, THE SMELL AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS. AND IT HELPS THEM KIND OF GET INTO THAT MENTAL ZONE, WHICH IS NICE. SO WE'D BE HANDLING THAT PROPERLY.
ANY QUESTIONS HERE? YEAH. SO TIMELINE, WE'RE JUST HERE TO CHAT TONIGHT. SEE IF WE'RE ADDRESS ANY CONCERNS THAT THAT THE COUNCIL HAS. AND THEN WE'LL BE WE'RE EXPECTING TO SUBMIT THE CUP AND ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TOMORROW, BUT WE'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS.
THESE ARE ACTUAL UNITS THAT WE HAVE IN THE WILD. SO THIS IS KIND OF GENERALLY THE OTHER THING WAS AN AI RENDERING. SO GOOD JOB. BUT THIS IS THIS IS GENERALLY WHAT THOSE THOSE
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BARREL SAUNAS LOOK LIKE. WITH THAT, THAT'S ALL I GOT. CHAIR, I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED. YOU SAID YOU BACKED AWAY FROM THE PROPOSAL AT THE DOCK CAFE BECAUSE OF WHAT WAS THE REASON.AND HOW ARE YOU ADDRESSING THAT SHORTCOMING HERE WE HAVE THE INDOOR SPACE WITH CHANGING ROOMS AND SHOWERS. WHAT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE DOCK WAS WE WHEN WE CAME HERE AND GOT APPROVED FOR IT, WE HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH OWNERSHIP AT THE TIME THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN INDOOR SPACE AT THE DOCK WHERE WE COULD SET UP CHANGING LITTLE LIKE THE CHANGING TENTS THAT YOU SEE. AND THEN THERE WOULD BE SOME LOCKERS AND A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO CONGREGATE INDOORS OUTSIDE OF THE ELEMENTS. WE GOT SET UP, DID A VIDEO, WE WERE READY TO GO. WE HAD THE WOOD THERE, AND THEN THEY TOOK BACK THE INDOOR SPACE. SO THEY WERE LIKE, YOU COULD STILL DO THIS, BUT THERE'S NO INDOOR SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO GO. AND THE I MEAN, IT WASN'T GREAT FOR US, BUT WE JUST DIDN'T THINK THAT IT JUST WASN'T A SAFE OPTION. AND I DIDN'T WANT PATRONS TO BE IN THAT SITUATION. I DIDN'T WANT TO BE IN THAT SITUATION. SO THAT WAS A SAFETY CALL ON OUR SIDE. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE BUILDING IN VERY CLOSE PROXIMITY, SO WE'VE MITIGATED THAT RISK. THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM. CHAIR, JUST TO INTERRUPT FOR A SECOND, I JUST WANT TO MAKE CLEAR, I THINK WE SHOULD STAY FOCUSED. REALLY IT'S REALLY HELPFUL HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. BUT NOTHING THAT THEY'RE DISCUSSING NOW IS REALLY A FORMAL PROPOSAL. AND I DON'T WANT TO GET SIDETRACKED WITH THIS SPECIFICS. REALLY, THE QUESTION FOR YOU IS JUST THIS BIGGER QUESTION OF IS THIS TYPE OF USE SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK COULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH A NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT? THAT'S KIND OF THE FIRST QUESTION. AND IF WE SAY YES, THEN WHEN THEY COME IN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN REVIEW SPECIFICS BECAUSE THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME WE'VE SEEN THIS WAS TODAY. THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL SO THAT THERE MAY BE SIGNIFICANT REVISIONS. SO I DON'T WANT TO GET DOWN THE ROAD. BUT THIS BIGGER QUESTION OF IS THIS TYPE OF USE EVEN A GOOD FIT? AND IF SO, THEN WE CAN KIND OF KEEP WORKING FORWARD. SO IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, IT'S HELPFUL. BUT KEEPING AN EYE ON THAT BIGGER QUESTION. AND I THINK ABOUT CREATIVE BUT RESPECTFUL USES OF THESE KIND OF DISTRICTS IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF KIND OF THE COMMERCIAL VARIABILITY IS PART OF THE FABRIC AND UNIQUENESS OF WHAT STILLWATER CAN OFFER. SO WE CAN FIND A WAY TO MAKE THESE THINGS PALATABLE. I'M ALWAYS IN FAVOR OF THAT VERSUS KIND OF THE TRADITIONAL JUST BOOM, BOOM, BOOM. SO VARIABILITY IDEA, THE IDEA TO BE ABLE TO EXPLORE THAT AND HAVE PROPOSALS COME OUR WAY. I'M NOT NECESSARILY AGAINST AT ALL. I UNDERSTAND THIS IS LIKE THE SQUARE PEG ROUND HOLE. WHAT IS THIS CLOSEST TO IN STAFF'S MIND? LIKE, IS IT CLOSEST TO A HEALTH CLUB? IS IT LIKE, WHAT IS THIS CLOSEST TO? YEAH, IT'S AGAIN, I THINK THAT KIND OF OUTDOOR RECREATION, OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL RECREATION IS PROBABLY THE CLOSEST. I WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, SEARCHING AND I SEE KIND OF THE STANDALONE COMMERCIAL SAUNA SOMETIMES IS LUMPED UNDER HEALTH CLUB OR FITNESS CENTER. SOMETIMES IT'S PERSONAL SERVICE ESTABLISHMENT.
WE'D HAVE TO COME UP WITH A, A GOOD TITLE THAT FIT THIS. BUT I THINK IN THAT REALM OF KIND OF AGAIN, BECAUSE IT'S OUTDOOR KIND OF A COMMERCIAL RECREATION TYPE OF USE IS PROBABLY. AND THAT IS ALLOWED IN OUR MIXED USE AND IT IS ALLOWED IN OUR DOWNTOWN, BUT IS NOT YET BEEN APPLIED OR THOUGHT ABOUT BEING APPLIED IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. AND WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL RECREATION USE OR IS THERE A DEFINITION OF IT? YEAH, I WILL GO BACK AND LOOK, I THINK I LOOKED BRIEFLY AND IS NOT IT'S NOT A FULL DEFINITION, BUT I THINK IF YOU WAIT A SECOND HERE. YEAH, WE DON'T HAVE OUTDOOR. WE HAVE. YEAH, WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION OF THAT IN THE CODE. SO WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT BECAUSE WE WERE SCOURING THROUGH THE CODE AS WELL, AND THE CLOSEST THAT WE COULD COME UP WITH IS, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THE BARBER SHOP WITH THE BARBER CHAIR. SO SOMEBODY COMES IN AND THEY GIVE YOU SOME MONEY AND THEN THEY GET A HAIRCUT, RIGHT. AND THEY THAT'S WHERE THEY HAVE THEIR SERVICE.
THEY COME INTO OUR SPOT, THEY GIVE US SOME MONEY, AND THEN THEY GET TO GO SIT IN A HOT ROOM. OUR THE CHALLENGE THAT WE'RE HAVING HERE FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE IS THE FACT THAT THAT CHAIR IS OUTSIDE. THAT'S WELL, SORT OF OUTSIDE EVEN, RIGHT? YEAH, IT'S JUST IN
[01:15:01]
ANOTHER ROOM, BUT YOU HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE TO GET TO THAT OTHER ROOM IS KIND OF RIGHT, YOU KNOW.SO YEAH. AND THAT'S, I MEAN, FOR ME, I'M, I'M GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF THIS. THIS SEEMS LIKE A GOOD IDEA. IT'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO KEEP OUR ARMS WRAPPED AROUND IT ENOUGH. BUT YOU KNOW, I, I GUESS I'M IN AGREEMENT THERE IS THAT TYPICALLY WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE GETTING IS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, BUT WE'RE ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT IS HOW IT IMPACTS NEIGHBORS AND WHATNOT. AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE GOING TO START, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO BE THE PEOPLE. I MEAN, ANY, ANY BUSINESS IS GOING TO HAVE TRAFFIC. BUT IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, THE ONE DIFFERENCE IS, IS THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MOVEMENT BETWEEN THE MAIN BUILDING AND THESE OUTBUILDINGS. WE WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT MAYBE THAT WAY, YOU KNOW, AND SO IT'S KIND OF THAT THAT LITTLE BIT OF OUTDOOR TRAFFIC THAT WAY, IT'S NOT A HUGE ISSUE. IT'S HOW DO WE DEAL WITH IT? YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A HUGE DIFFERENT DISTANCE AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, THE WAY THAT THEY HAVE IT SET, SET UP. AND MAYBE THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE START SAYING IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT TO BE BUFFERED OR IT'S GOT TO BE, YOU KNOW, WELL, IT'S KIND OF LIKE A PATIO AND A RESTAURANT, RIGHT? YOU KNOW, YOU GO OUTSIDE. YEAH, THEY'RE SITTING AT TABLES COMPLETELY OUTSIDE. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, IF YOU YEAH, IF A RESTAURANT HAD ASKED TO GO IN HERE AND WANTED AN OUTDOOR PATIO, WE WOULDN'T SAY, OH, THIS IS AN OUTDOOR EATING ESTABLISHMENT, YOU KNOW, OR IF THEY YEAH, IF THEY DECIDED THEY WANTED TO BRING IN BARRELS AND HAVE PEOPLE EAT INSIDE OF A BARREL OUTSIDE OF THEIR RESTAURANT, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD DO THAT. I MEAN, IF THAT'S A REQUIREMENT, RIGHT? BUT NO, NO, NO. RIGHT. BUT THAT'S KIND OF WE NEED A FOOD TRUCK. YEAH. NO FOOD TRUCK. SO IN TERMS OF FEEDBACK, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN'S COMMENT ABOUT THE VARIETY OF THE SPICE OF LIFE. AND I THINK THIS IS A DIFFERENT SERVICE OFFERING. AND ALSO GOING BACK TO THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF NICE TO HAVE THAT IN THE FUTURE, FLEXIBILITY TO KIND OF BE MORE THOUGHTFUL OR CREATIVE AS WELL, WITHOUT PUSHING THE BOUNDARY IN TERMS OF QUESTIONS THAT I MIGHT HAVE.
THE NEXT GO AROUND. ONE IS WE'VE ALREADY BROUGHT IT UP THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, MAKING SURE ALL THAT IS PASSED. THE ONLY THING I HAVEN'T HEARD YET IS JUST WATER DRAINAGE FOR THE OUTDOOR. JUST MAKING SURE THAT WE'VE GIVEN THOUGHT TO THAT. I WOULD BACK TO THE TEXT AMENDMENT, THIS PARTICULAR ONE. IT'S LIKE VERY CONCRETE. I APPRECIATE THE RENDERING. IT'S LIKE ENCLOSED STRUCTURE TO ENCLOSED STRUCTURE WITH MINIMAL OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES. I THINK THAT IF WE'RE THINKING OF WHAT A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT LOOKS LIKE, SHAPING HOW MUCH IS EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS VERSUS SHUTTLING MIGHT BE HELPFUL. YEAH, BECAUSE I'LL USE I'LL PICK ON YOUR BARBER CHAIR ANALYSIS. IF YOU WERE BARBERS AND YOU HAD, YOU'RE LIKE, ACTUALLY, I'M GOING TO HAVE SIX OUTDOOR BARBER STATIONS AND THERE'S NO ENCLOSURES. I WOULD VIEW THAT BUSINESS MAYBE DIFFERENTLY THAN SOMEONE WHO HAS, YOU KNOW, SIX BARBER CHAIRS THAT ARE IN SEPARATE ENCLOSED PODS, BUT MAYBE NOT. AND I THINK THAT THE ZONING TEXT MAYBE IF THAT ADDRESSED, THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL. YEAH. AND OUR BARBER CHAIR IS INSIDE OF A BARREL. SO WE HAD, WE HAD ACTUALLY, WE WERE TALKING TO BEN BEFORE WE DID THIS. AND, YOU KNOW, WE WERE LIKE, WE COULD PUT UP A FENCE, YOU KNOW, LIKE THAT. BUT THE KIND OF PRETTY. AND HE'S LIKE, WE ACTUALLY WOULDN'T WANT THAT. IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOU KNOW, OFFENSIVE TO HAVE A FENCE THAN THERE IS TO HAVE THIS TO LOOK AT. AND IT KIND OF GIVES SOME STYLE. SO I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YEAH. SINCE I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THE POTENTIAL ZONING CODE AMENDMENT, MY INCLINATION IS TO TAKE A. WELL, THERE IS NO DEFINITION OF OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL RECREATIONAL USES. BUT, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS I THINK MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE IS THAT WE SHOULD FIND SOMETHING. WE SHOULD NARROW DOWN THE SCOPE OF THIS PARTICULAR EXERCISE. SO I THINK A AMENDMENT THAT SAYS OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL, RECREATIONAL USES, WHATEVER THEY MIGHT BE, ARE OKAY IN NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT MIGHT OPEN THE DOOR TO OTHER THINGS WE HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT, LIKE COMMERCIAL HOCKEY RINKS OR SOMETHING. SO WE YEAH, YOU KNOW, OR, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THAT IS NOT PROBABLY WHAT WE WANT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. AND TO CALL AN OPERATION SUCH AS THIS OR EVEN, YOU KNOW, OUTDOOR SEATING AT A RESTAURANT IS SOME TYPE OF OUTDOOR USE THAT DOESN'T SEEM
[01:20:02]
LIKE AN IT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT TO ME. IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE AN OUTDOOR ACTIVITY IN THE WAY THAT US MINNESOTANS TEND TO THINK OF OUTDOOR RECREATION. YEAH. AND YOU KNOW, I, I THINK THE MORE THAT I THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS PROPOSAL IS AND COMPARING IT TO SIDEWALK CAFE THAT WE ALREADY HAVE, I THINK IN SOME WAYS, SIDEWALK CAFE HAVE A TENDENCY TO POTENTIALLY BE LOUDER AND MORE INTRUSIVE TO THE NEIGHBORS BECAUSE ALL OF YOUR ACTIVITY IS HAPPENING EXCLUSIVELY OUTDOORS. AND AS PEOPLE OUT THERE AND PURPOSEFULLY TALKING AND, YOU KNOW, AND SOME OF THESE TYPES OF THINGS. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF DOING THIS TYPE OF THING. AGAIN, AS I SAID, IT'S WE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO, YOU KNOW, THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE PAYING YOU THE BIG BUCKS FOR. MR. ZIMMERMAN, IS THE DEFINITION OF THE. YEAH, I MEAN, I JUST THINKING ABOUT IT THE LAST FEW DAYS, IF WE HAVE SOME POSITIVE INCLINATION HERE, I THINK WE WOULD GO THE ROUTE OF CARVING OUT A NEW USE AND CALLING IT SOME KIND OF PERSONAL HEALTH WELLNESS SOMETHING, BUT INCLUDING THAT DEFINITION BEING CLEAR THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY INCLUDE SOME OUTDOOR COMPONENT TO IT. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO, BUT THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE WRAPPED IN KIND OF LIKE A RESTAURANT COULD HAVE OUTDOOR SEATING. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO, BUT THAT COULD BE A PART OF IT. AND THEN I WOULD RECOMMEND WE DO IT AS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT SO THAT WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO LOOK AT IMPACTS AND BUILD SOME CONDITIONS, AND THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY MITIGATE. SO THAT'S, I THINK, THE ROUTE WE WOULD TAKE. WE LOOK AT OTHER CODES TO SEE HOW ELSE OTHER CITIES HAVE TREATED THIS USE, AND KIND OF USE THAT AS A STARTING POINT. SO I THINK I, I AGREE WITH THAT. YEAH. BUT I THINK WE'VE GOT A PRETTY GOOD.YEAH. OKAY. WE'RE GIVEN AT LEAST THUMBS UP AT THIS POINT ON TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THIS AND SEE IF THERE'S A WAY TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. IT SEEMS LIKE A, A GOOD USE AND SOMETHING WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD LOOK INTO. GREAT. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. WONDERFUL. HAVE A GREAT NIGHT. THANK YOU. SO WE'VE GOT COMMUNICATIONS. OUR COUNCIL LIAISON REPORT IS
[7. Staff Updates]
PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN THIS EVENING. SO DO WE HAVE ANY STAFF UPDATES? JUST TWO THINGS.I'LL GO FIRST AND JUST SAY I SENT AN EMAIL OUT TO YOU ALL ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WEBSITE BEING LIVE. PLEASE GO ON, TAKE THE SURVEY, FILL OUT THE THE INTERACTIVE MAP, SHARE IT WITH OTHER PEOPLE. WE DO HAVE THESE POSTCARDS. IF ANYONE WANTS TO TAKE SOME WITH THEM, THEY HAVE THE QR CODE AND THE URL. JUST HAND THEM OUT TO PEOPLE OR POST THEM SOMEWHERE.
WE'LL BE DOING VARIOUS EVENTS ART FESTIVAL, HARVEST FEST, FARMER'S MARKET AND HANDING THESE OUT AND HAVING SOME OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO DO POST-IT NOTES AND THINGS, BUT HELP SPREAD THE WORD. AND THEN I GUESS THE LAST THING IS JUST, I MENTIONED THAT JULIE STARTED AND YOU SAW HER UP THERE. SO IT'S A CHANCE FOR HER TO INTRODUCE HERSELF. IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ALONG THOSE LINES BEFORE WE ARE DONE. I DO HAVE BABY PICTURES OF BEN'S BABY TO SHARE AFTER THE MEETING FOR THOSE. THAT'S THAT'S WHAT WE NEED. YEAH.
WELCOME, JULIE. WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL. THANK YOU. HOLD ON. SEEING NOTHING BEFORE FURTHER BEFORE THE THE COMMISSION I GOT I GOT THE HAMMER HERE. THE WE ARE WE ARE
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.