Oct 26, 2026 Parks and Recreation Commission

[I. CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:08]

TO ORDER. REMEMBER THAT. THE PARK AND REC COMMISSION OPEN ON OCTOBER 26TH, 7 P.M. ROLL CALL PLEASE. OKAY. SO. CHEROKEE. YES. VICE CHAIR LARSON HERE. CHAIRMAN. ARCHIE. HERE. CHAIR.

MCSWAIN. HERE. I MEAN, COMMISSIONER. COMMISSIONER. COMMISSIONER. COMMISSIONER.

LEHMAN. COMMISSIONER. ELLIS. HERE. AND THEN COMMISSIONER WRIGHT. WELL, SHE'S. SHE'S ABSENT. YES. I THINK SO. HERE SHE COMING. THANKS, COUNCILWOMAN. PAULINA AND COUNCIL. WHO DID IT? OH, I DIDN'T HEAR. SORRY. THE MINUTES. I ASSUME EVERYBODY HAS READ THE

[III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]

SECOND. I'LL SECOND IT. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. OPEN FORUM IS HERE FOR OPEN FORUM.

EVERYONE IS HERE FOR OUR PRESENTATION. OKAY. OKAY. SO THE PRESENTATION THEN. SO OUR

[2. Land & Water Legacy Referendum - Washington County]

LEGACY PROGRAM FUNDS ARE USED STRICTLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PRINCIPLES THAT WERE OUTLINED IN THAT ORIGINAL 2006 BOND REFERENDUM. SO THAT INCLUDES PROTECTING DRINKING WATER SOURCES, IMPROVING WATER QUALITY OF RIVERS, LAKES AND STREAMS, PURCHASING PARKLAND, INCLUDING TRAIL CORRIDORS, PRESERVING WETLANDS AND WOODLANDS, AND PROTECTING ALONG WATER BODIES FROM DEVELOPMENT. AND AS I GO THROUGH THESE PHOTOS, I WILL JUST NOTE THAT ALL EXCUSE ME, LOOK AT THESE SLIDES. I WILL JUST NOTE THAT ALL THE PHOTOS THAT YOU SEE UP HERE ARE FROM VARIOUS LEGACY PROGRAM PROJECTS. SO JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT TO GIVE YOU A VISUAL ALONG WITH THE INFORMATION. SO HOW DOES OUR LEGACY WORK? SO LEGACY PROTECTS LAND THROUGH ACQUISITION. THERE'S ESSENTIALLY TWO BUCKETS OF WORK THAT LEGACY PROGRAMS PROJECTS FALL INTO. THE FIRST ARE PARK ACQUISITIONS. THAT'S WHEN THE COUNTY PURCHASES THE FULL FEE TITLE OF LAND FOR INCORPORATION INTO THE COUNTY PARKS. AND THEN THE SECOND IS CONSERVATION EASEMENTS. AND THAT'S WHEN THE COUNTY PURCHASES THE INTEREST OF LAND FOR PROTECTION. AND I'LL GO INTO A BIT MORE DETAIL ON BOTH OF THOSE MECHANISMS IN A SECOND HERE. ONE QUESTION WE GET OFTEN IS IF LAND LEGACY PROGRAM FUNDS CAN BE USED ON OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE, MAINTENANCE OR HABITAT RESTORATION ENHANCEMENT. THE

[00:05:02]

AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT FOR EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR THE COUNTY HAS INVESTED IN THIS PROGRAM, WE'VE GOTTEN ABOUT $1.80 BACK THROUGH LEVERAGE PARTNERSHIP FUNDS. NOW, GO OVER A LITTLE BIT OF MORE INFORMATION ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PROGRAM, STARTING WITH REGIONAL PARK ACQUISITIONS.

SO SINCE 2006, 871 ACRES HAVE BEEN ACQUIRED INTO WASHINGTON COUNTY REGIONAL PARKS THROUGH OUR LEGACY. YOU CAN SEE HERE WE HAVE WE HAVE OUR FULL LIST OF PROJECTS. SO YOU CAN PICK YOUR FAVORITE PARK OUT THERE. IF YOU'RE CURIOUS AS TO HOW MANY ACRES HAVE BEEN ACQUIRED AND AS TO HOW PARK ACQUISITIONS ARE IDENTIFIED, LEGACY ALWAYS WORKS WITH ONLY WILLING SELLERS WHO APPROACH THE COUNTY WITH INTEREST TO SELL THEIR LAND TO ACQUIRE THE FEE TITLE AND PROPERTIES FOR COUNTY PARKS AND PROJECTS ARE ONLY ELIGIBLE FOR ACQUISITION IF THEY'RE WITHIN A BOUNDARY THAT'S ALREADY IDENTIFIED BY A PARKS MASTER PLAN. SO EVERY SINGLE COUNTY REGIONAL PARK HAS AN ASSOCIATED LONG RANGE MASTER PLAN THAT GOES INTO HOW THE PARK IS MANAGED, PARK IMPROVEMENTS, AND A PART OF THAT PROCESS IS ALSO WORKING WITH SURROUNDING LANDOWNERS TO IDENTIFY PARCELS THAT THE COUNTY IS ABLE TO ACQUIRE. AND THEN ONCE IT GETS WITHIN THAT BOUNDARY, THOSE PLANS ARE ALSO APPROVED BY THE WASHINGTON COUNTY BOARD AND THE METROPOLITAN COUNCIL. SO IT'S A PRETTY EASY PROCESS FOR THE LANDOWNER APPROACHES US. IT'S A YES OR NO IF IT'S WITHIN THAT ALREADY PRE-IDENTIFIED MASTER PLAN. AN EXAMPLE OF A PARKS PROJECT IS THE BRANSON PROJECT. THIS IS A ROUGHLY 50 ACRE PROPERTY IN STILLWATER TOWNSHIP THAT WAS ACQUIRED FOR PINE POINT REGIONAL PARK IN DECEMBER OF 2020. IT'S LOCATED ON THE FAR EASTERN SIDE OF PINE POINT, SO IT'S AROUND A TEN MINUTE DRIVE FOR CITY OF STILLWATER COMMUNITY MEMBERS. A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT PINE POINT PARK. PINE POINT CONTAINS PINE FORESTS, LAKES AND MARSHES. THE PARK ALSO HOSTS FIVE MILES OF MULTI-USE TRAILS FOR ACTIVITIES LIKE BIKING, BIRD WATCHING, CROSS COUNTRY SKIING AND HIKING, AND THE AREA BECAME A REGIONAL PARK IN 2005. IT ALSO SERVES AS ONE OF THE MAJOR TRAILHEADS FOR THE GATEWAY STATE TRAIL.

ANOTHER ASPECT OF THIS PROJECT IS THAT A CORNER OF IT IS ACTUALLY RESERVED FOR THE GATEWAY STATE TRAIL EXTENSION THAT'S COMING UP. NOW, MOVING ON TO THE CONSERVATION EASEMENT SIDE OF THE PROGRAM. SO AGAIN, SINCE WE JUST CLOSED ON A CONSERVATION EASEMENT, THESE NUMBERS ARE A LITTLE BIT OUT OF DATE. BUT SO FAR 1080 ACRES HAVE BEEN PROTECTED THROUGH WASHINGTON COUNTY. WASHINGTON COUNTY HELD CONSERVATION EASEMENTS. 202 OF THESE ACRES WERE PRIOR TO 2006, THROUGH WHAT WAS CALLED THE COUNTY'S PURCHASE OF DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS PROGRAM, WHICH WAS ANOTHER CONSERVATION EASEMENT PROGRAM THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY THE PREDECESSOR TO LEGACY BEFORE THE 2006 BOND. AND THEN SINCE THE 2006 BOND, 880 NOW ACRES OF LAND HAS BEEN ACQUIRED FOR HAS BEEN PROTECTED THROUGH CONSERVATION EASEMENTS. AND IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT A CONSERVATION EASEMENT IS, A CONSERVATION EASEMENT IS A LEGAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN A LENDER AND THE COUNTY THAT PERMANENTLY RESTRICTS HOW THE LAND CAN BE USED TO PROTECT THE PROPERTY'S NATURAL FEATURES. UNLIKE PARKS, EASEMENTS ARE IDENTIFIED ON MORE OF A CASE BY CASE BASIS. SO WE ALSO, LIKE PARKS, ALWAYS WORK WITH WILLING SELLERS. BUT WHEN A LANDOWNER APPROACHES US AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, I'M INTERESTED IN A CONSERVATION EASEMENT, WE REVIEW THAT PROPERTY FOR THINGS LIKE HABITAT QUALITY, CONNECTIVITY CORRIDORS. IF THERE'S THE ABILITY FOR PUBLIC ACCESS TO IDENTIFY IF IT'S

[00:10:05]

AROUND TWO THIRDS OF OUR CONSERVATION EASEMENTS ARE FULLY IN SOME WAY ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC AND OWNED BY PUBLIC LANDOWNERS, AND THEN AROUND A THIRD ARE FULLY PRIVATE, OWNED BY AN INDIVIDUAL LANDOWNER AND NOT ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC. AN EXAMPLE OF A CONSERVATION EASEMENT PROJECT THAT I'M SURE THIS GROUP IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH IS THE LUMBERJACK LANDING OR PROPERTY. SO AS I'M SURE YOU ALL KNOW, IT IS A 15 ACRE PROPERTY IN THE CITY OF STILLWATER THAT NOW HAS A CONSERVATION EASEMENT OVER IT. IT'S NOW CALLED LUMBERJACK LANDING PARK. THIS WAS A PROJECT THAT WAS COMPLETED IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE CITY OF STILLWATER AND THE MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES THROUGH AN ENVIRONMENTAL AND NATURAL RESOURCES TRUST FUND GRANT. IT ACTUALLY WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A UNIQUE PROJECT FOR THE FOR THE LEGACY PROGRAM. IT WAS INITIALLY ACQUIRED BY WASHINGTON COUNTY IN 2014, WITH THE INTENT TO EVENTUALLY TRANSFER IT OVER TO THE CITY OF STILLWATER IN EXCHANGE FOR A CONSERVATION EASEMENT. AND THAT TRANSFER OFFICIALLY HAPPENED IN 2017. SO AS OF TODAY, WE'VE BEEN WORKING PRETTY CLOSELY WITH CITY OF WATER, CITY OF STILLWATER STAFF ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF LUMBERJACK LANDING, AND SOME OF THE GREAT WORK THAT'S HAPPENING THERE AS IT RELATES TO THE CONSERVATION EASEMENT. BUT NOW THAT YOU KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HOW THE PROGRAM WORKS, WE'D LIKE TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE UPCOMING BOND REFERENDUM FOR THIS PROGRAM. SO THAT INITIAL 2006 BOND, THAT $20 MILLION BOND OVER THE 20 YEARS OF THE PROGRAM'S IMPLEMENTATION, THAT MONEY HAS PRETTY MUCH BEEN ALL ENTIRELY SPENT, OR IT'S ALLOCATED TO BE SPENT ON CERTAIN PROJECTS. SO THAT LED THE COUNTY TO ASSESS OPTIONS FOR A RENEWED BOND THAT STARTED IN FALL OF 2025, WHEN THE COUNTY CONTRACTED WITH THE TRUST FOR PUBLIC LAND, OR TPL, FOR FEASIBILITY RESEARCH AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR A 2026 BOND REFERENDUM. TPL, WITH THE SUPPORT OF COUNTY STAFF, COMPLETED A FEASIBILITY STUDY AND THAT ASSESSED VARIOUS FUNDING OPTIONS FOR THE PROGRAM, AND THEY ALSO COMPLETED A PUBLIC OPINION SURVEY, AND THAT WAS TO GAUGE VOTER SUPPORT FOR THE POTENTIAL OF A 2026 REFERENDUM. AND THEN BASED ON ALL OF THAT ANALYSIS, TPL DID RECOMMEND TO THE WASHINGTON COUNTY BOARD TO MOVE FORWARD TO PLACE THE BOND REFERENDUM QUESTION ON THE GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT FOR NOVEMBER OF 2026, AND THE SPECIFIC FUNDING MECHANISM FOR THAT BOND IS A GENERAL OBLIGATION BOND IN TOTAL OF $40 MILLION. AND THEN PART OF WASHINGTON COUNTY'S PROCESS WAS ALSO ASSESSING THE TAX IMPACT FOR VOTERS. SO ANNUALLY, THE PROPOSAL WOULD COST APPROXIMATELY FOR A RESIDENTIAL HOMESTEAD PROPERTY 2460 PER YEAR FOR 20 YEARS ON A HOME WITH A MEDIAN HOME VALUE OF $420,900. AND THEN, SINCE TAXES CAN ALSO GET PRETTY COMPLICATED, WE ALSO HAVE ESTIMATIONS FOR THOSE. SO FOR AGRICULTURAL HOMESTEAD, IT'S $3 PER $100,000 OF TAXABLE MARKET VALUE FOR THE PORTION OF LAND THAT'S AGRICULTURAL. AND THEN FOR NON-HOMESTEAD, IT'S $6 PER $100,000 OF TAXABLE MARKET VALUE. THE STATED PURPOSE OF THE BOND REFERENDUM IS TO IMPROVE WATER QUALITY OF RIVERS, LAKES AND STREAMS, INCLUDING THE SAINT CROIX AND MISSISSIPPI RIVERS, PROTECT DRINKING WATER SOURCES, PRESERVE WETLANDS AND WOODLANDS, PROTECT LAND ALONG WATERBODIES FROM DEVELOPMENT AND PRESERVE NATURAL AREAS, AS WELL AS TO PURCHASE PARKLANDS AND PROTECT WILDLIFE HABITAT. WHICH MIGHT SOUND A LITTLE FAMILIAR BECAUSE THAT'S ALSO THE STATED PURPOSE OF THE 2006 BOND FOR ACCOUNTABILITY. THE USE OF FUNDS IS LIMITED TO THOSE PURPOSES ONLY. SO AGAIN, LIKE THE 2006 BONDS ONLY ABLE TO BE USED FOR THE ACQUISITION OF PARKS AND TRAILS OR CONSERVATION EASEMENTS. THERE'S ALSO FULL PUBLIC DISCLOSURE OF ALL PROJECT SPENDING THROUGH THE BOND, AS WELL AS AN ANNUAL PUBLIC AUDIT THROUGH THE COUNTY'S STANDARD AUDIT PROCESS. AND THEN THE ELECTION TIMING IS, OF COURSE, NEXT WEEK, NOVEMBER 3RD, 2026. AND THEN HERE YOU CAN SEE THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE OF THE BALLOT. SO IF YOU GO TO VOTE, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU'LL SEE ON YOUR BALLOT. I WON'T READ OUT THE WHOLE QUESTION SINCE AGAIN, JUST KIND OF GOES OVER THAT STATED PURPOSE. BUT THIS DOES MIRROR WHAT WAS ON THE BALLOT IN 2006. THE ONLY CHANGES THAT WE MADE WERE WE ADDED TO CONTINUE RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING THERE, JUST TO INDICATE TO VOTERS THAT THIS IS AN EXISTING PROGRAM, IT'S NOT A NEW INITIATIVE. AND THEN WE ALSO INCLUDED ON THE WATER QUALITY OF RIVERS, LAKES, AND STREAMS, INCLUDING THE SAINT CROIX AND MISSISSIPPI RIVERS.

AT THE BEGINNING THERE, JUST TO AGAIN, GIVE A CLUE TO VOTERS AS TO WHAT KIND OF WATER BODIES WE'RE DISCUSSING. AND THEN YOU HAVE, BY VOTING YES ON THIS BALLOT QUESTION, YOU'RE VOTING FOR A PROPERTY TAX INCREASE. AND THEN THAT ESTIMATED VALUE THAT WE JUST DISCUSSED. BUT THAT IS ALL OF THE INFO THAT WE HAVE FOR YOU TODAY. CAN PAUSE ON THE ACTUAL BALLOT LANGUAGE.

[00:15:03]

JUST CURIOUS. YEAH. MR. CHAIR AND COUNCIL COMMISSION MEMBER, IT DID DOUBLE MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE MOMENTUM THAT THE PROGRAM HAS GOTTEN AT THIS POINT. WE IT WAS A KIND OF A NEW INITIATIVE IN 2006, WHICH WAS BEFORE MY TIME. BUT THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. AND THAT'S THE KIND OF SUCCESS THAT THIS PROGRAM HAS GROWN QUITE A BIT. ALSO, PROPERTY VALUES HAVE INCREASED QUITE A FAIR AMOUNT. SO BASED ON TBLS POLL AND ASSESSMENT, THEY THEY CALCULATED THAT $40 MILLION WAS RIGHT AROUND WHERE VOTERS WERE WILLING TO AND SUPPORTIVE OF THIS PROGRAM. I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH IT COST VOTERS IN 2006, SOMETHING I MIGHT MENTION THAT I DID FAIL TO MENTION IN THIS PRESENTATION IS THAT $24 NUMBER WERE IS TO IS AN ESTIMATION. IF THE COUNTY WERE TO ISSUE ALL $40 MILLION OF THE BOND ALL AT ONCE. THAT'S NOT STANDARD COUNTY PROCESS. AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO SPEND $40 MILLION ALL AT ONCE.

USUALLY HOW THE COUNTY PROCESS BONDS IS THEY DO IT IN CHUNKS. SO IT'S AROUND 5 TO $7 MILLION CHUNKS EVERY FEW YEARS. SO IN REALITY, FOR THE AVERAGE, YOU KNOW, HOMEOWNER THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A LOT LOWER THAN THAT 2460. BUT WE WANTED TO GIVE THE WORST CASE SCENARIO. OKAY. BUT I'M NOT SURE WE CAN MAYBE GET YOU AN ESTIMATION OF HOW MUCH THAT'S OKAY. I WAS JUST CURIOUS, MR. CHAIR, COUNCIL MEMBER, IT WAS ABOUT BETWEEN 5 TO $10 FOR KIND OF THE MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD VALUE FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS PLUS PLUS THE POPULATION HAS INCREASED, SO POPULATION HAS INCREASED. WE WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, 20, $40 MILLION TODAY IS ABOUT WHAT YOU GOT FOR $20,000,000.20 YEARS AGO. SO THAT'S, THAT WAS KIND OF THE BALLPARK THAT WE LOOKED AT. BUT SERENA IS CORRECT THAT WE WOULD NEVER EXPECT THAT THE BOARD WOULD ALLOW US TO ISSUE ALL THOSE BONDS AT ONCE. SO WHEN WE APPLY IT IN PRACTICALITY, YOU WOULD LIKELY SEE PROBABLY LIKE A 5 TO $10 ANNUAL COST ON YOUR TAX BILL. BUT IT'S BEEN VERY IMPORTANT TO YOUR COUNTY BOARD THAT NOBODY FEELS SURPRISED OR GETS SOME STICKER SHOCK SHOULD THE REFERENDUM PASS. AND THEN WE DO ISSUE BONDS. SO THEY WANTED TO KIND OF DEMONSTRATE ON THE BALLOT LIKE A WORST CASE SCENARIO, SO THAT PEOPLE FELT THEY HAD A STRONG UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THEY'RE VOTING FOR OR AGAINST. THANKS. I WAS WONDERING WHO'S STUDYING THE WATER QUALITY AS FAR AS ONCE EASEMENTS COME IN THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA'S DNR? ANY IDEA? MR. CHAIR AND COMMISSION MEMBER. SO IN TERMS OF WHO'S EXACTLY STUDYING THE WATER QUALITY ON CONSERVATION EASEMENTS, WE DON'T REQUIRE ANY ASSESSMENT OR DATA TAKEN. WE ALSO DON'T REQUIRE ANY HABITAT MANAGEMENT ON OUR CONSERVATION EASEMENTS. WE DO PROVIDE THEM LIKE HABITAT MANAGEMENT PLAN TO GIVE THEM A REFERENCE IF THEY DO NEED IF THEY WANT TO CONDUCT SOME SORT OF HABITAT MANAGEMENT.

YOU DO HAVE YOUR RESOURCES LIKE THE WASHINGTON CONSERVATION DISTRICT, WHO CAN WORK WITH LANDOWNERS TO MAYBE DO SOME OF THAT ASSESSMENT, BUT WE DON'T ACTIVELY TAKE THAT DATA. WHEN WE DO OUR EASEMENT ASSESSMENT, WE DO LOOK AT VARIOUS OTHER DATA SETS, LIKE THE IMPAIRED WATER, WATER BODIES LIST, GROUNDWATER, POLLUTION SENSITIVITY, THAT KIND OF THING.

BUT THAT'S DURING THE EASEMENT INTAKE PROCESS RATHER THAN LONG TERM MONITORING. AND WE DO HAVE A FEW KIND OF LIKE SOFT ANALYZES THAT WE KNOW TO SHOW THE EFFECTIVENESS OF A CONSERVATION EASEMENT. A GOOD EXAMPLE IS THERE'S A LAKE IN WOODBURY OFF OF BAILEY ROAD CALLED LAKE, WHICH IS ALSO A CITY PARK. WE'VE GOT TWO EASEMENTS AROUND THAT LAKE. THE CITY'S ULTIMATE VISION IS TO PROTECT THE WHOLE SHORELINE OF THAT LAKE. NOT NOT GOING TO SAY THIS IS ALL CREDIT TO US, BUT WE JUST CLOSED OUR SECOND EASEMENT ABOUT A YEAR AGO ON THAT LAKE. AND WITHIN THE LAST YEAR, THEY'VE BEEN THEY'VE TAKEN THAT LAKE OFF OF THE IMPAIRED WATERS LIST, PROTECTING IT FROM DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE PROTECTING IT FROM ANY SORT OF DUMPING, THINGS LIKE THAT. WE ALSO DO A LOT OF PROJECTS WITH BELWIN AND AFTON, AND THEY HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF PROTECTION WORK ALONG VALLEY CREEK, KIND OF SHORELINE STABILIZATION DOWN THERE, A LOT OF DIFFERENT WORK. SO WE SO THEY GIVE US INFORMATION AND UPDATES AND DATA ON THAT. WE'RE NOT REQUIRING THEM TO KIND OF REPORT OUT ANYTHING TO US AT THIS POINT IN TIME. METRICS LIKE THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE CONSIDER IF THE REFERENDUM PASSES AND WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE GOT ENOUGH CAPACITY TO START KIND OF WANTING TO QUANTIFY THE IMPACT OF OUR WORK. THANK YOU. YEAH. I JUST TELL YOU, IT'S BEEN A GREAT PROGRAM OVER THE YEARS. IT'S WE WOULDN'T HAVE LUMBERJACK LANDING IF IT WASN'T FOR THIS PROGRAM. AND ACTUALLY, WHEN I WAS WORKING FOR THE PARKS AT THE COUNTY, WE USED A LOT OF THIS MONEY. SAINT CROIX LOVES LAKE ELMO. SOME OF THE OTHER PARKS. THEY'VE DONE A LOT SINCE I'VE LEFT. I CAN'T BELIEVE I'VE BEEN RETIRED THAT LONG. BUT IT'S A GREAT PROGRAM. IT'S I

[00:20:03]

IT'S UNBELIEVABLE. IT'S. SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT LATER. BUT YOU GUYS ARE INVITED TOMORROW, RIGHT? WE'RE COMING. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SOUNDS GOOD, BUT IT'S PHENOMENAL FOR THE CITY OF STILLWATER. IT'S IT'S A TRUE COMMUNITY PROGRAM. YOU CAN GET TO SEE SOMEONE LIKE SWAIN'S WORK UP THERE WITH THE PRAIRIES AND STUFF UP THERE. YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, HE ACTUALLY DOES SOMETHING, YOU KNOW. IN LIKE, LIKE ON THE IT'S HARDER ON THE PARKS BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY A PART OF THE PARKS, BUT LIKE EASEMENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. IS THERE LIKE VISUAL CUES TO SHOW PEOPLE THAT THIS IS LIKE LAND THAT HAS BEEN ACQUIRED WITH LIKE THEIR, OUR DOLLARS, RIGHT? LIKE JUST BECAUSE I THINK SOMETIMES PEOPLE WILL SEE LIKE, OH, THAT'S A REALLY NICE LOOKING AREA OVER THERE AND NOT REALIZE LIKE, OH, THAT WAS ACTUALLY PURCHASED WITH TAXPAYER MONEY. MR. COMMISSIONER, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. WE DON'T REQUIRE LIKE SPECIFIC SIGNAGE. WE WORK A LOT WITH THE MINNESOTA LAND TRUST AND VARIOUS OTHER ORGANIZATIONS WHO USE OUTDOOR HERITAGE FUND MONEY THAT COMES FROM THE 2008 CLEAN WATER LAND AND LEGACY AMENDMENT. ANY LAND THAT'S ACQUIRED OR PROTECTED OR RESTORED OR ENHANCED USING THAT MONEY DOES REQUIRE A SIGN. SO MAYBE IF SOMETIMES IF YOU'RE LOOKING, YOU'LL SEE SOME 2008 CLEAN LEGACY AMENDMENT SIGNS THROUGHOUT. AND YOU CAN USUALLY TELL THAT THAT'S EITHER A CONSERVATION EASEMENT PROJECT OR A PROJECT THAT'S BEEN PROTECTED THERE. OCCASIONALLY, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT DISTINCT BOUNDARIES, YOU'LL SEE SOME COUNTY SIGNS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NOT LIKE ENCROACHMENT FROM OTHER NEIGHBORS. BUT THAT CAN ALSO BE SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT WITH THE, WITH THE RENEWED BOND OF MORE OF THAT COMMUNICATION ELEMENT TO MAKE FOLKS KNOW, LIKE THIS IS WHERE YOUR MONEY IS GOING, THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY. AND WE DO HAVE ALL OF OUR PROPERTIES HIGHLIGHTED ON OUR COUNTY WEBSITE AS WELL. SO WE HAVE PHOTOS OF ALL THE PROPERTIES AND ALSO A NICE BIG COUNTY MAP SHOWING DOTS WHERE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN PROTECTED. GREAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, THANK YOU. GOOD LUCK IN THE REFERENDUM. AND THEN YOU HAVE ONE VOTE ALREADY. WE HAVE ELIZABETH TO GO OVER THE

[3. Lumberjack Landing Guiding Document]

SO I WANT I WANT TO BE ABLE TO GET THIS DOCUMENT OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY. WE'RE GOING TO START BUILDING A COMMUNICATION PLAN AROUND THE BUILDING ON HOW WE'RE GOING TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE PUBLIC INTERNALLY, EXTERNALLY. AND THIS IS JUST REALLY THAT FIRST STEP OF KIND OF BREAKING THE ICE TO THE COMMUNITY. LIKE THIS IS WHAT THE BUILDING IS GOING TO BE FOR.

BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT'S LIKE OUR FIRST STEP. WE'LL HAVE A LOT TO FIGURE OUT AS IT OPENS AND WE GET REQUESTS, WE'LL BUILD THE THE RULES AND REGULATIONS AROUND THE BUILDING.

BUT THIS IS KIND OF JUST THAT FIRST INITIAL DOCUMENT TO GET US GOING. I LIKE TO SWITCH FROM WHAT THE LAST DOCUMENT YOU SAID, BUILDING AND DOCUMENT. YOU SAY PARK. SO THEN IT KIND OF INCLUDES THE WHOLE AREA, WHICH I. YEAH. AND WE'VE HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THAT TOO. I MEAN, IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET THAT MESSAGE OUT TO THE COMMUNITY. IT IS A CITY PARK.

IT'S A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING WITHIN A PARK. BUT IT WOULD IT WOULDN'T OPERATE ANY DIFFERENT THAN, SAY, PIONEER PARK, RIGHT? IF, IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO RENT A ROOM OR THE BUILDING INSIDE OF THAT, THE LAND STILL EXISTS AS A PARK, PEOPLE COULD STILL COME UP IN THEIR KAYAKS. AND SO YOU DON'T GET TO TAKE OVER THE PARK EVER. FOR SURE. HOPEFULLY THAT IS CLEAR IN THIS DOCUMENT.

BUT AGAIN, I THINK WE'LL HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS THAT ARE UNANSWERED. THIS IS JUST THAT

[00:25:02]

SO IS THAT LAST ONE REFERRING TO FACILITY OR THE PARK OR BOTH? THE TIER THREE. I MEAN, I THINK THE DOCUMENT IS MEANT FOR BOTH. BUT AGAIN, THERE WOULDN'T BE AN INSTANCE WHERE SOMEONE COULD RENT OUT THE WHOLE PARK SO SOMEBODY ELSE COULD NOT USE IT.

THAT MIGHT GET, OH, OH. I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY I WAS THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AT GOLF COURSES, IF THERE'S A WEDDING THAT HAPPENS AT THE GOLF COURSE AND THEY TAKE OVER THE WHOLE THE WHOLE RESTAURANT, IF THEY HAPPEN TO HAVE A RESTAURANT THERE, THAT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC. SO I MEAN, THIS WAY, AS THIS ONE SOUNDS, THEN THAT COULD HAPPEN IF THEY WANT A WHOLE WEDDING PARTY BECAUSE IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PICTURE. THEY COULD USE A PARK LIKE THEY DO ANYWHERE ELSE, BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD NEVER BE LIKE A SIGN LIKE, RIGHT. THERE'LL NEVER BE A SIGN LIKE CLOSED FOR PRIVATE EVENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WE WOULD ALLOW THAT FOR LIKE ONE OF THE ROOMS WITHIN THE BUILDING TO RENT OUT ONE OF THE ROOMS FOR THAT WHERE WE WOULDN'T JUST ALLOW TRAFFIC FLOW THROUGHOUT THE BUILDING, BUT THE PARK WOULD NEVER BE THAT WAY. NOW DO YOU THINK? AND I'M PROBABLY JUST OVERTHINKING THIS, THEN THE TIER THREE COMPATIBLE USES IS THAT SMALL GATHERINGS AND SMALL GATHERINGS HAPPEN LIKE IMPROMPTU ALL THE TIME. LIKE, I JUST WONDER IF THERE'S GOING TO BE ANY ANGST.

IF SOMEBODY SAW THAT, IT'D BE LIKE, WELL, WE CAN'T GATHER THERE. AND IT'S LIKE, NO, YOU CAN GATHER THERE. BUT MAYBE I'M OVERTHINKING IT. FOR RENTAL. YOU MEAN JUST FOR COMPATIBLE USES? SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE KNOW THIS ISN'T FOR GIANT BIG GROUPS IN THERE, RIGHT? SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE PARK COMMISSION MEETING DOWN THERE OR A SMALL ROTARY CLUB MEETING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT COULD WORK. BUT IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A CONVENTION OR, YOU KNOW, HAVE LIKE UNITED WAY MEETING OR NOT MEETING, BUT A, I'M TRYING TO THINK THE RIGHT WORD, A SOCIAL EVENT OR A FUNDRAISER OR WHATEVER. IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK FOR 100 PEOPLE. WE JUST SMALL PEOPLE OR SMALL GROUPS. YOU CAN HAVE AN EDUCATIONAL THING IN THERE FOR THE KIDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT WE'RE NOT. AND YOU CAN MAYBE DO USE THE BIG ROOM, I SUPPOSE, FOR A MEETING FOR SOMETHING, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE LIMITED ON THE PARKING AND EVERYTHING ELSE. YEAH. I JUST WOULDN'T WANT SOMEBODY TO SEE THAT AND THINK, OH, I WAS GOING TO MEET MY FRIENDS AT THE PARK, BUT THAT'S LIKE A TIER THREE PLAYER. BUT IT'S A, YOU KNOW, IT'S A APPROVED USE INCLUDE IT'S APPROVED USE UNDER THAT TIER. OKAY. AND AGAIN, I'M SURE WE'LL GET QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS JUST LIKE YOU ARE. WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE YEAH, WE AREN'T GOING TO HAVE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE LUMBERJACK SHOW OUT OF LUMBERJACK PARK. I THINK IT'S GOOD. I'M JUST LIKE NITPICKING THINKING HOW MIGHT SOMEBODY LIKE MISREAD THIS OR SOMETHING.

SO I APPRECIATE THAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I THINK YOU WOULD WANT US TO PASS A MOTION TO SEND IT ON. I WOULD LOVE THAT. I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION TO I MOTION THAT WE SEND ON TO CITY COUNCIL, APPROVE AND RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL TO RECOMMEND CITY COUNCIL. YEAH, I'LL SECOND THAT. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. WELL, VERY MUCH. THIS WILL NOT BE THE LAST TIME YOU SEE ME.

I'M SURE WE'LL HAVE LOTS MORE DOCUMENTS. AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS, I'M ALWAYS AVAILABLE. THIS WAS PUTTING TOGETHER WORKING WITH THE NATIONAL PARKS PEOPLE AND THE WATER CONSERVANCY. THE OPERATIONS MIGHT BE FOR THAT AND THE OPERATION PLAN FOR THE WHOLE BUILDING AND HOW IT'S GOING TO WORK AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. SO SHE'S BEEN GREAT TO WORK WITH. AND THIS IS, LIKE I SAID, THIS IS JUST A GUIDING DOCUMENT TO MAKE IT WORK. YEP.

THERE'S LOTS OF QUESTIONS, BUT WE'LL WORK THROUGH IT ALL. WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE LUMBERJACK SHOWS OUT OF LUMBERJACK LANDING. SO AS LONG AS YOU DON'T ALLOW IT. MIKE. THANKS, EVERYBODY. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TONIGHT. THANKS, THANKS. THANKS, ELIZABETH. NEW BUSINESS. SO NEXT ITEM FOR NEW BUSINESS IS THE NEW PARK SIGN DESIGN

[4. New Park Sign Design Approval]

[00:30:04]

WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF BUDGET LEFT OVER FROM OUR PARK SYSTEM PLAN. AND SO WHAT WE STARTED LOOKING AT WAS IF WE'RE GOING TO DO NEW SIGNAGE ACROSS THE PARK SYSTEM, LET'S TRY TO SET UP SOME SORT OF DESIGN ESTHETIC THAT WE CAN THEN USE NOT ONLY FOR PARK ENTRY SIGNS, BUT ONCE WE KIND OF RUN IT BY YOU GUYS AND GET YOUR FEEDBACK, POTENTIALLY ROLL IT INTO WAYFINDING, SIGNAGE, KIOSKS, THAT SORT OF THING, SO THAT WE CAN UPDATE KIND OF HOW PEOPLE FIRST SEE AND IDENTIFY THE PARKS, HELPS THEM WITH LEGIBILITY, RECOGNITION AND CONSISTENCY ACROSS THE PARK SYSTEM. SO I HAVE SOME FUN SAMPLES THAT I'LL PASS AROUND THAT YOU GUYS CAN LOOK AT WHILE I'M TALKING. THESE ARE DIFFERENT MATERIALS. JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF SOME OF THE OPTIONS FOR THE PANEL TYPE THAT I'LL BE TALKING THROUGH TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING A LITTLE TACTILE TO PLAY WITH WHILE YOU'RE. LISTENING. THESE ARE, FOR THE MOST PART, THEY'RE HPL PANELS, WHICH IS A COMPRESSED HIGH PRESSURE LAMINATE. SO IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THE WOOD SIGNAGE THAT YOU HAVE OUT THERE NOW, BUT IT'S REALLY STURDY.

AND THIS IS WHAT WE TYPICALLY USE FOR COMMERCIAL GRADE SIGN PANELS THAT ARE EXPOSED TO SUN AND WIND. AND WE WANT TO BE KIND OF GRAFFITI RESISTANT. SO WE CAME UP WITH THREE. DISTINCT SORT OF SIGN SIZES AND WORKING WITH STAFF, YOU KNOW, WE WERE KIND OF THINKING WE COULD GO MORE TRADITIONAL. WE COULD DO SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE CONTEMPORARY AND STAFFING IT UP, LIKING ALL THREE OF THESE KIND OF FOR DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS. YOU GUYS HAVE A LOT OF PARKS.

THE SETTINGS THAT YOUR SIGNS ARE IN ARE THEY VARY ACROSS THE PARK SYSTEM. SOMETIMES YOU GET THEM PERPENDICULAR TO TRAFFIC, SO YOU WANT THEM TWO SIDED. SOMETIMES THEY HAVE A BACKING PLANTING, SO YOU ONLY NEED THEM ONE SIDED. YOU'VE GOT NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS THAT MAYBE DON'T NEED ANYTHING REALLY BIG. AND THEN YOU HAVE LARGER, MORE DISTINCTIVE, ALMOST REGIONAL PARKS THAT COULD USE SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT HEFTIER. AND SO WHEN WE WERE WORKING THROUGH DESIGNS, WE HAD THE SMALLEST ONES ON THE RIGHT SIDE, WHICH WE WOULD CONSIDER FOR SECONDARY PARK ENTRANCES OR FOR SMALLER NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS. IT'S IN THE SAME SIGN FAMILY AS THE ONE ON THE LEFT, WHICH IS WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER YOUR PRIMARY OR STANDARD PARK SIGN. DEFINITELY, YOU NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE SPACE THAN THE SMALLER SIGN, BUT YOU HAVE THAT AT MOST OF YOUR PARKS. AND THEN WE WERE KIND OF DOING A RIFF ON THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE LIFT BRIDGE FOR THE CENTER SIGN. THIS ONE HAS A SILHOUETTE THAT'S MAYBE SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR AND IS A LITTLE BIT MORE TRADITIONAL. STAFF SO FAR HAS LIKED THIS ONE. FOR PLACES LIKE PIONEER PARK, WHERE YOU HAVE A MORE TRADITIONAL SETTING AND IT WANTS SOMETHING MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE STAND OUT THAN THE OTHER TWO. AND AGAIN, IT CAN BE DOUBLE SIDED AS WELL. WE'RE WORKING WITH A VARIATION ON THE STILLWATER BLUE, BUT WE HAVE BOTH A DARK COLORWAY AND A LIGHT COLORWAY. SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE HOW THAT PLAYS WITH SORT OF THE MUTED GREEN BACKGROUND THAT WE KIND OF ASSOCIATE WITH PARK SETTINGS. SO I CAN GO THROUGH THESE IN A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL, BUT JUST FIRST GLANCE ON THESE, I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU GUYS ARE FEELING ABOUT READABILITY STYLE. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THESE SORT OF IN YOUR PARKS? WHAT? OH GO AHEAD.

NO, I WAS JUST THINKING THE WHITE VERSUS THE BLUE AND THE BLUE. OF COURSE, STILLWATER STICKS OUT AND THE WHITE, IT KIND OF FADES BACK IN. YEAH. SO DO YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE. YES.

THE BLUE. YEAH. YES. HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW WATER TOWER? YEAH. NOT IN THE DAYTIME. OH BOY IS IT. YOU CAN SEE THEM ALL AWAY. IT'S NICE. OKAY. THE BLUE. IS THAT A DRAW ON THE SAINT CROIX RIVER. LIKE HOW DID THE BLUE. YEAH. SO THE LITTLE STRIPE ON THE RIGHT SIDE IS A REFERENCE TO THE CITY'S SHORELINE. YEAH. OKAY, COOL. SO IT'S IT'S AN ESTHETIC ELEMENT, BUT IT DOES HAVE A GROUNDING IN THAT. YEAH. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE SMALLER SIGN, THE WATER ITSELF AS A FOOTPRINT IS RELATIVELY SQUARE. SO THIS ONE REALLY MIMICS ACTUALLY LIKE THE SHAPE OF STILLWATER AND HOW IT BUTTS UP AGAINST THE SAINT CROIX. CAN'T QUITE DO THAT FOR THE LONG BOY OVER ON THE LEFT SIDE. BUT THAT ONE, YOU KNOW, IS MORE PROMINENT. AND WE CAN STILL KEEP THAT AS A MOTIF. OKAY, SO I LIKE IT. THE ONLY THING LIKE, OKAY, FOR THAT, ARE WE SHOWING

[00:35:06]

YOU'RE KIND OF. YEAH, THAT'S THE TRICKY THING WITH THE EXTENSION OF THE MOTIF, RIGHT? AND THE FACT THAT THE COLORWAY KEEPS THE BLUE ON THE BULK OF THE SIGN. YEAH, THEORETICALLY THAT IS WISCONSIN. YEAH. YEAH. WE WE PLAYED WITH CUTTING IT OUT IN THE PRIMARY WISCONSIN.

AND THEN I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WITH THE BLUE IS THAT THEN THAT'S. SO THE RIVER LOOKS LIKE THE THE LINE THAT YOU'RE CREATING THE EDGE. YEAH. BUT THAT'S JUST THE EDGE. IF IT'S SCALED ACCURATELY, THE LINE WIDTH IS ABOUT THE WIDTH OF THE SAINT CROIX. IF YOU LOOK AT OKAY. OR JUST GET RID OF THAT LINE AND DO IT BLUE SO YOU COULD HAVE IT WITHOUT. THERE'S NO WISCONSIN WHATSOEVER. YEAH. WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU PREFER SORT OF THE LIGHT BLUE, THE LIGHT BLUE ALSO THE IS THAT BECAUSE OF THE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LIKE AT A PARK. SO YOU'RE ZOOMED OUT. THE, THE, THE SHAPE OF THE EDGE IS DIFFERENT ON BOTH OF THEM. IS THERE A REASON FOR THAT? BECAUSE YEAH, YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. IT IS A BIGGER THICKNESS ON ONE THAN THE OTHER, EVEN THE SHAPE, LIKE I GUESS WHERE YOU'RE SO YOU GOT THE, LET'S SEE, THE PRIMARY ONE HAS A LITTLE HUMP AT THE TOP. THAT ONE JUST KIND OF GOES OFF TO THE POST. YOU'RE RIGHT. THAT'S A DIFFERENT LINE TYPE FOR BOTH. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHY. IF THE SHORELINE LOOKS DIFFERENT. AND IF IT'S THE SAME PLACE, I THINK IT DOESN'T LOOK THE SAME.

YEAH. SO IT'S LIKE WE SHOULD MAKE THAT ONE. YEAH. SO ARE YOU LOOKING TO HAVE THE SAME SIGN FOR ALL THE PARKS, OR ARE YOU GOING TO TAYLOR LIKE AND HAVE DIFFERENT ONES OF THESE DEPENDING ON THE PARK? IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE SETTING. SO I THINK WE WOULD BE LOOKING TO PAIR THE SHORT ONE AND THE WIDE ONE AS LIKE THE STANDARD PARK SIGNS, EXCEPT IN CASES WHERE IT'S A MORE REGIONAL PARK. OR WE COULD JUST STICK WITH THOSE TWO, RIGHT? NOT EVERY PARK IS GOING TO NEED A REALLY BIG SIGN. SO WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO BE KIND OF FORCING THE LARGER ONE INTO THE SMALLER PARKS. NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS WOULD PROBABLY HAVE THE SMALLER SCALE, REALLY, THE MIDDLE OPTION IS THERE BECAUSE STAFF WAS, YOU KNOW, INTERESTED IN IT. AND WE LIKE TO GIVE YOU GUYS MULTIPLE OPTIONS. SO IF YOU GUYS THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE THAT THIRD SORT OF LARGER, MORE STANDARD OPTION, WE COULD KEEP IT, OR WE COULD JUST STICK WITH THE TWO SORT OF COMMON FAMILY TYPE THREE, LARGE AND SMALL. YEAH, I REALLY LIKE THE MIDDLE ONE. I FEEL LIKE, CAN YOU MAKE IT SMALL AND DO THAT ONE? LIKE AS THE TYPE ONE, WE COULD SCALE IT DOWN, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN TO SCALE IT DOWN FOR BECAUSE I REALLY LIKE THAT DESIGN. I THINK SCALE WISE, IT WOULD BE QUITE DIFFERENT WHEN YOU'RE KIND OF SKINNYING UP THE CENTER PANEL. WE MIGHT NOT KEEP THE HUMP IN THE SAME WAY THAT. SURE. YEAH. OBVIOUSLY THE, THE POST SIZE SCALES DOWN. YEAH. SO THAT'S REALLY EASY TO TRANSLATE. YEAH. SO WE COULD LOOK AT DOING A SMALLER SIGN IF THE MORE CONTEMPORARY SIGNAGE ISN'T AS INTERESTING TO PEOPLE. I LIKE THE MIDDLE ONE THE BEST. PERSONALLY, I THINK THE IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO FIGURE OUT WHEN I WAS LIKE, JUST FIRST READING THROUGH ALL THE MATERIALS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, LIKE WHAT THE HECK WAS GOING ON ON THE SIDE OF THE THE SIGNS. AND THEN I SHOWED IT TO MY HUSBAND AND HE WAS LIKE, OH, IT'S THE RIVER. I WAS LIKE, OH, LIKE IT. LIKE HE HAD TO TELL ME WHAT IT WAS. AND THEN IT MADE SENSE. BUT IT EITHER. YEAH, THAT I THINK, I THINK MOTIFS ARE LIKE THAT. I THINK SOME PEOPLE GET THEM RIGHT AWAY AND SOME PEOPLE IT'S JUST A DESIGN ELEMENT. IT JUST LOOKS, YOU KNOW, ODD TO ME. I WAS LIKE, WHY IS WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? SO BUT I LIKE IT. I LIKE IT PAIRED WITH THE OTHER ONE. BUT BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO HAVE THAT HUGE OF A SIGN ALMOST, ALMOST ANYWHERE, EVEN IN PIONEER PARK. I DON'T KNOW IF IT. YEAH, BUT THAT'S JUST AN OPINION. YEAH. HOW BIG ARE WE MAKING IT? I MEAN, IT'S BIG. IS IT LIKE NINE FEET? IS IT NINE FEET? I LIKE THAT THAT MIDDLE SIGN KIND OF MIRRORS THE LIKE THAT TO ME IS LIKE, OKAY, WE'LL GO STILL WATERY THAN THE THAN THE RIVER ON THE SIDE. IT'S HUGE. YEAH. SO THIS IS, THESE ARE INTENDED TO BE PARK ENTRY SIGNS. SO THEY'RE MEANT TO BE READ AT A VEHICULAR SURE FROM A VEHICLE. AND THEY WOULD BE THE ENTRY SIGN. AND THEN ONCE WE PICK AN ESTHETIC, WHAT WE CAN DO IS WE CAN TRANSLATE THAT INTO A SUITE OF SIGNAGE THAT CAN BE USED FOR MORE PEDESTRIAN APPLICATIONS. SO IF YOU WOULD WALK UP TO A KIOSK OR YOU WOULD HAVE A SIGN POSTED ON A

[00:40:03]

BLUE IS GONNA FADE ANY MORE THAN I THINK THE WORST COLOR FOR FADING IS RED. RED SAUCE.

YEAH. OKAY, SO BLUE, I THINK YOU WOULD GET MAYBE A MORE MUTED BLUE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE ANYTHING UNSIGHTLY. LIKE HOW A LOT OF OLD REDS TURN PINK. I PROBABLY WOULDN'T WANT THAT. AND ANOTHER THOUGHT THAT I WAS KIND OF WONDERING, WAS ACTUALLY WONDERING ABOUT A TYPE, LIKE ANOTHER ONE FOR LIKE SMALLER PARKS. YEAH, LIKE ON A SINGLE POST VERSUS A DOUBLE POST. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS A REASONING BEHIND THAT. I COULD SEE THAT BEING A SHARP CORNER TO TRY TO AVOID. BUT THEN THE OTHER THING THAT WAS I WAS THINKING ABOUT BECAUSE COMMISSIONER, HAVING THIS BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT THIS UP A LOT, AND I KNOW YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS WITH WAYFINDING AND HOW IT TIES IN, BUT WHEN I SAW THE MOTIF, I WAS ACTUALLY THINKING ABOUT LIKE, WHERE ARE THE OTHER PARKS? IS THERE A WAY TO HAVE THE NAME OF THE PARK WITH LIKE IN RELATION TO ALL OTHER PARKS? LIKE THAT'S A SEPARATE. YEAH. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ON THE BACK OF THE SIGN OR SOMETHING SEPARATE ENTIRELY, BUT OVERALL I REALLY LIKED THEM.

I THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO DO A KIOSK SIGN SO THAT AT PARKS WHERE YOU DO WANT TO ORIENT YOURSELF, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE A MAP SIGN THAT A KIOSK THAT COULD INCLUDE A MAP. OH, OKAY. OKAY, A WALKUP SIGN VERSUS LIKE VEHICULAR DRIVE BY IDENTIFICATION, WALKING FROM THE STREET. OH, OKAY. OKAY. YEP. SO LIKE I SAID, THIS IS INTENDED TO BE FIRST PASS ON ESTHETICS. AND THEN WE WOULD DEVELOP A SUITE OF SIGNAGE BASED ON THE SELECTED LOOK. WE DON'T WANT TO GET TOO FAR AHEAD OF OURSELVES DESIGNING THOSE PIECES. OKAY. GOT IN FRONT OF YOU GUYS. SO I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. YEAH. OKAY. I'M GOING TO SEND THIS AROUND BOTH DIRECTIONS. OKAY. SO FOR ME, WHEN I LOOK AT THESE, ESPECIALLY THE ONES ON THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT, ESPECIALLY, AND HELVETICA, BECAUSE APPLE HAS USED IT FOR SO MANY DECADES NOW, IT JUST READS COMPUTER SCREEN TO ME. OH, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THAT'S THEIR DEFAULT FONT BECAUSE OF THAT EFFECT. AND SO THAT'S WHAT IT SEEMS TO READ. AND SO I THINK ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE GOING TO SET THE PRECEDENT NOW OF WHAT THE STYLE IS GOING TO BE. WHAT I LIKE THE SLEEPY HOLLOW ONE. YEAH. IF WE'RE GONNA SET THE PRECEDENT NOW FOR WHAT'S GOING TO GET USED IN DOWNTOWN FROM A HISTORICAL STANDPOINT, SOMETHING THAT'S MORE SERIF IS GOING TO BE MORE IN ALIGNMENT WITH THAT. OKAY. AND I THINK HAVING THAT SERIF, THE PART IS THAT LIKE IT GETS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THE WAVES AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO IT'S MAYBE A LITTLE BIT HARDER TO READ FROM THE ROAD. GREAT HIGHWAY SIGNS USE HELVETICA BECAUSE IT'S

[00:45:02]

YEAH. SO I THINK A MORE THAT'S A VERY BRIGHT BLUE VERSUS A VERY MORE HISTORICAL DEEP COLOR.

KIND OF LIKE THE LIFT BRIDGE HAS GOT THE GREEN. THAT'S KIND OF LIKE A DEEPER UNDERTONE TO IT. WE PLAYED WITH THAT FOR THE COLOR OF THE SIGN INITIALLY. YEAH. SO IF WE HAVE TO STICK WITH THE BLUE, THAT'S FINE. BUT I WOULD GO TOWARDS A, A RICHER BLUE, A RICHER, IT'S GOT MORE DEPTH TO IT. YEAH. YEAH. SO IT'S GOT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S LIKE, I MEAN IT'S, IT'S ALMOST GOT A LITTLE BIT MORE, I WILL SAY THE WAY IT PRINTS. YEAH. THAT'S WHAT I LOVE THIS. THAT'S CLOSER TO WHAT I HAVE ON MY I LIKE THAT. YEAH. YEP. SO THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. LIKE I DON'T KNOW WHICH COLOR WE'RE LOOKING AT. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. YES. COLOR IS VERY HARD. AND ALSO PEOPLE SEE COLOR. I KNOW MY WIFE AND I TALK ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME. I ALSO AM NOT A SUPER FAN OF THE ROUNDED OPPOSITE CORNERS. OKAY, BECAUSE THAT'S A SUPER COMMON DESIGN IN TILES ON A WEBSITE. OKAY, SO I'M TRYING TO MOVE US AWAY FROM THE WEBSITE APPEARANCE. OKAY. LIKE OUT LIKE, RIGHT. WE WANT PEOPLE TO COME INTO OUR PARKS. WE WANT THEM TO NOT BE LIKE, THEY'RE LIKE, OH YEAH, THAT JUST SEEMS LIKE ANOTHER COMPUTER TILE. I FEEL LIKE YOU MUST LOOK AT COMPUTERS A LOT. TOO MUCH MORE THAN LOOK AT YOUR COMPUTER. I DO WANT YOU TO GET TO A PARK AND FEEL LIKE YOU'RE ESCAPING. YOU'RE ESCAPING LIKE, YEAH. AND I THINK THERE'S THAT PART OF WHERE THAT IT'S LIKE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE, I DON'T KNOW, WITH THE SERIF ONES, YOU JUST HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE DEPTH TO IT VERSUS JUST LIKE, HERE IT IS DONE. LIKE I WANT TO LET PEOPLE EXPLORE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE. SHARIF SERIF SARA I WOULD GO, I WOULD STILL STICK WITH THE SANS SERIF, BUT IT IS 100% AGAIN, CAN YOU READ STILLWATER FROM HERE? I CAN SURE READ TEDDY BEAR. I KNOW, BUT I KNOW IT IS. BUT THE IMPORTANT THING, YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS. YEAH. RIGHT.

BUT THE IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE. WELL, THE THING THAT'S BEING COMMUNICATED HERE IS THAT IT'S PIONEER PARK. YOU COULD STILL DO THAT. BUT A SERIF. PERHAPS BOLD OR SOMETHING. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. SERIF BOLD. YOU'RE GIVING ME GOOD INFORMATION. WE'RE WORKING ON THE SIGNAGE PLAN FOR LUMBERJACK LANDING. YEAH, THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO IT. I MEAN, THERE'S OTHER THINGS LIKE SEMI SERIF TOO, BUT THAT DOESN'T LOOK FANTASTIC. SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE IT'S STILL BOLDED. BUT IT'S GOT THE LITTLE TEENY TINY, WHICH ALMOST MAKES IT IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE FONT, RIGHT? IT REALLY DOES. RIGHT? TRADITIONALLY GRAPHIC DESIGN FOR MORE THAN A DECADE

[00:50:06]

SAY THAT AGAIN. THE SIGHTLINES TO ANY GIVEN SIGN IS NOT, AND THE SPEEDS AREN'T SUPER HIGH.

SO I THINK YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH A SERIF FONT IF THAT'S A PREFERENCE FOR EVERYBODY. WE ALSO NEED TO BALANCE SORT OF LIKE THE HISTORICAL PARTS OF STILLWATER WITH A LOT OF THE NEWER DEVELOPMENTS. AND SO IT'S A WE COULD GET INTO IT WITH GRAPHIC DESIGN FOR SURE. WHAT DID YOU WANT TO SAY? OH, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY LIKE IN GENERAL, I THINK READING A DARK COLOR ON TOP OF WHITE IS A LOT EASIER THAN TRYING TO READ WHITE TEXT ON TOP OF SOMETHING THAT'S DARK.

UNLESS IT'S A, YOU'RE ON A COMPUTER WITH A DARK SCREEN, I SUPPOSE. LET'S JUST GET, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION. YEAH, I'M NOT A FINANCE EXPERT, NEITHER AM I.

WOW, THIS IS WAY ABOVE MY. ANY SIGNS BEEN LIKE TESTED FOR LIKE ACCESSIBILITY WITH LIKE DYSLEXIA VISION ISSUES. WE HAVE NOT DONE ANY OF THAT YET, BUT WE THAT KIND OF STUFF. WE TYPICALLY RUN THEM THROUGH A COLOR BLINDNESS CHECKER. AND THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT UNIVERSAL DESIGN PRINCIPLES. SO TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT EVEN FOR PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, DON'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE, AT LEAST THE ICONOGRAPHY IS, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTANDABLE AND THAT PEOPLE KIND OF RECOGNIZE THE PARTS OF THEM LIKE THE NAME AND THEN THE ADDRESS AND THEN THE RECREATION EXPERIENCE. I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU GUYS WANT TO PROCEED, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE WE HAVE A CLEAR PREFERENCE. CAN WE LET THEM? THE ONE THING I WOULD SAY IS BETWEEN THAT ONE AND THE FIRST ONE, I DON'T THINK WE CAN HAVE THAT BLUE ON THE THE LAST ONE. SO I MEAN, THAT ONE LOOKS FINE BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S WISCONSIN. AND IF YOU GET IT LATER, I THINK PEOPLE WOULD GET IT LATER AS WISCONSIN. BUT THIS ONE, IT'S A LAKE. I'M THINKING, OH, IS THAT LILY LAKE FOR SURE.

LAKE. OR IF YOU'RE IF IT'S GOING TO BE AT A LAKE, IT'S GOING TO TURN INTO THE LAKE.

AND IF YOU WANT IT TO BE THE RIVER, THEN LET'S, LET'S MAKE WISCONSIN SOMETHING ELSE. OKAY.

WELL, THAT WOULD BE THE. THAT'S THE THING. JUST MAKE THEM THE SAME AS YOU LIKE YOU LIKED IT ON THE MAP. I LIKE I LIKE THE BLUE ONE AND I LIKE THE DESIGN ON THE BLUE ONE, BUT I KNEW IT WAS WISCONSIN RIGHT AWAY ON THIS ONE. I'M THINKING OF TEDDY BEAR PARK. I'M GOING TEDDY BEAR PARK. I KNOW WHERE TEDDY BEAR PARK IS. SO THEN I GO RIVER WITH THAT. BUT YEAH, BUT IF THAT WAS THAT LILY LAKE. OH, THAT'S LILY LAKE. OH, SURE. YEAH. THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING ABOUT THIS ONE. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING. IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE THAT DIFFERENTIATES JUST TO SYMBOLIZE STILLWATER INSTEAD OF THAT? OH, THE LOGO. I WOULD HAVE NEVER GUESSED THAT WAS THE RIVER. OH, I'M SORRY. I HAD A HARD TIME FIGURING IT OUT TOO.

I JUST IF THERE'S A COUPLE ISLANDS IN THE RIVER, IT WOULD COMPLETE IT FOR ME. JUST PUT A BRIDGE ACROSS IT. THERE YOU GO. AND WHY NOT JUST A BLUE FRAME? OR IS THAT NOT. YOU MEAN LIKE JUST STRAIGHT UP BLUE? YEAH, JUST AS A FRAME. AND THEN IT'S STILL THE NAME AND CENTERED.

YEAH, IT COULD BE. YOU KNOW, WE WERE PLAYING WITH HOW TO TIE IT TO PLACE. YEAH. SO THAT IT FEELS LIKE THE WATER. YEAH. SO LIKE ON THIS ONE, I'M KIND OF THE OPPOSITE OF ANDREW'S THAT, THAT, THAT SQUIGGLE KIND OF LOOKS REDUNDANT FROM I GET IT, YOU TOOK IT FROM THE, THE LOGO.

YOU KNOW, IT'S REDUNDANT IF IT'S IN THE LOGO, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH. I CAN SEE THAT. YEAH.

MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING ELSE. SOMETIMES I USE A REALLY SIMPLE LINE DIVIDER, BUT BECAUSE WE HAD THAT TO WORK WITH, IT WAS AN IDEA. SHOULD IT BE BLUE? THERE'S A LONG WAY TO THE BIG THING IS THE BIG, BIG THING FOR US IS THE COLOR AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO WE WANT TO STAY WITH STANDARD COLORS. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET A BRANDING THING FOR STILLWATER THAT YOU GET.

YOU COME TO STILLWATER, YOU KNOW, IT'S STILLWATER PARK STYLE GUIDE OR THE WHOLE CITY, THE WHOLE CITY. YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THE SQUAD CARS. THEY HAVE ONE THING, A SQUAD CAR. YOU HAVE ANOTHER THING ON A FIRE TRUCK, YOU HAVE ANOTHER THING ON. IF IT'S STILLWATER, IT'S STILLWATER. AND WE WANT TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT IT AT THIS PHASE BECAUSE IDEALLY, THIS DOES GET TRANSLATED INTO A SUITE OF SIGNAGE. YEAH. LIKE I SAID, WE'RE WORKING ON THE SIGNS FOR IPO PRICE PROPERTY OR NOT. PROPERTY. WELL, PROPERTY RIGHT NOW WE'RE WORKING ON THAT

[00:55:06]

AND THEN WE WANT SOMETHING THAT'S MAYBE A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO FABRICATE FOR JUST OUR STANDARD SORT OF NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS. THAT DOESN'T TAKE UP QUITE THAT MUCH SPACE, WHICH IS WHY IF WE DID REALLY LIKE THAT ONE, WE COULD JUST TRANSLATE IT INTO A SMALLER SIGN AND RUN THAT PAST YOU GUYS, TOO. YEAH, I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT. OKAY. YEAH. YOUR MAJOR PARKS WITH THAT MIDDLE SIGN AND THEN YOUR SMALLER, YOUR SMALLER PARKS WITH THE OTHER ONES, THAT'S A LOT EASIER TO DO. THE TEDDY BEAR, RIGHT? THE RED ONE. YOU'RE SQUISHING IT. IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET LIKE A VISUAL OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IN THE PARK? YEP. OKAY.

AND CHANGE THE YEAH, THAT WOULD BE KIND OF FUN. HARD FOR ME TO PICTURE. I THINK THAT TEN FEET JUST SEEMS HUGE EVEN FOR PIONEER PARK. SO I THINK YEAH, BUT IF YOU SHRINK IT. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. ON THAT SMALL ONE, YOU COULD DO THAT SMALL ONE LOOKING LIKE WASHINGTON JUST IF YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE US SAMPLES. YEAH. AND THEN GET RID OF THE BLUE. YEAH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

JUST IT SEEMS LIKE THE RIVER MOTIF DOESN'T REALLY DO IT FOR YOU GUYS. SO I THINK MAYBE WE GET RID OF THAT. AND THEN WE LOOK AT HOW TO KIND OF HAVE MORE. I'M MORE THE ARTIST. SO I THINK I LIKE IT. BUT THAT'S I UNDERSTAND THE PEOPLE STILL WANT TO HAVE A CLUE WHAT THAT IS, RIGHT. NOBODY FROM OUTSIDE OF STILLWATER WOULD PROBABLY. I MEAN, DOES IT MATTER IF THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT THE SIGN SAYS? NOT REALLY. OH. IF THE SIGN SAYS YEAH, NO, NO, NO, THAT'S A RIVER ESTHETIC DECISIONS. YEAH. RIGHT. YEAH. I MEAN, THEY MIGHT GET IT LATER BECAUSE THEY'RE LOOKING AT ANOTHER MAP AND GOING, OH, THAT'S WHAT THAT IS. YEAH.

WHICH IS KIND OF FUN TO JUST ANOTHER THING IS TEDDY BEAR. I JUST SAW JUST THE THING THAT BOTHERED ME JUST SO YOU COULD GET RID OF THE CANOEING AT THE. YEAH, YEAH. LUCKILY THERE'S A SANDBOX THERE THOUGH, BECAUSE THAT SANDBOX IS NEVER GOING AWAY. IS IT TOO MUCH WORK TO ASK ABOUT? CAN YOU CAN YOU COME BACK WITH SOME DESIGNS WITH THE DIFFERENT FONTS? BECAUSE I WAS FOLLOWING THEM AND THEY BOTH HAD GREAT PASSIONATE ARGUMENTS. YEAH. BUT I THINK I NEED TO VISUALLY SEE IT A LITTLE SIDE BY SIDE. SARAH VERSUS SANS SERIF. WE COULD DO A BRACKET IF THAT'S NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK. MAYBE. MAYBE IT'S LIKE A LITTLE CHARRETTE, LIKE KIND OF WHAT YOU DID WITH THE WHEN YOU. I WASN'T HERE AT THAT TIME, BUT YOU BROUGHT SOME WORDS IN AND PEOPLE WERE STICKING. SO WHAT I THINK WOULD BE GOOD THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU GUYS ON YOUR OWN TIME TO PERUSE AND LEAVE COMMENTS IS WE WE'VE USED MURAL BEFORE OR THERE'S ANOTHER APPLICATION CALLED MIRO THAT YOU MIGHT ALSO BE FAMILIAR WITH. IT'S JUST AN ONLINE WHITEBOARD. AND SO WHAT WE CAN DO IS WE CAN MOCK UP A COUPLE DIFFERENT EVOLUTIONS OF THIS WITH A COUPLE DIFFERENT OPTIONS, THROW THEM ON THE DIGITAL WHITEBOARD AND SEND YOU GUYS A LINK SO THAT ON YOUR OWN TIME, YOU CAN JUST POP IN AND TAKE A LOOK. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO WE CAN GIVE YOU INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO LEAVE A STICKY NOTE WITH LIKE YOUR THOUGHTS OR PREFERENCES. AND WE COULD DO A LITTLE VOTING EXERCISE. SO GREAT. THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. IS THERE A REP FOR THIS IN THE CITIES HERE? SO WE WORK WITH A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT SIGN FABRICATORS, AND THEY ALL HAVE THEIR DIFFERENT SOURCES FOR CHPL. SO ALBRECHT USES FOSSIL AND THEN SOME FOLKS USE I ZONE AND THERE'S A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT ONES. SO WHAT WE END UP DOING ONCE WE COME UP WITH DESIGNS THAT WE LIKE, IS WE USUALLY SHOP IT OUT TO A FEW DIFFERENT SIGN FABRICATORS, GET QUOTES, AND THEN WE FIGURE OUT WHO'S GOING TO GIVE US THE BEST DEAL. AND AS LONG AS IT'S KIND OF WITHIN THE DESIGN PARAMETERS, THEY OFTENTIMES WILL TAKE A LOOK AT HARDWARE AND BE LIKE, IF WE AFFIX IT THIS WAY, THEN WE CAN LIKE CUT DOWN COST A LITTLE BIT. SO WE RECOMMEND, YOU KNOW, ADHERING IT USING THIS METHOD. AND SO WE DO FINALIZATION OF THE SHOP DRAWINGS, AND THEN THEY FABRICATE IT AND THEN STAFF WILL INSTALL. ELIZABETH WAS JUST HERE. SHE'S WORKING ON THAT PROJECT RIGHT NOW. OH YEAH. SO WE SHOULD BE TYING THIS WHOLE THING TOGETHER. YEAH. WELL, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT FONTS. I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING. YOU WANT. YOU WANT EVERYTHING CONSISTENT IN THE WHOLE SYSTEM. YEAH. WHAT? WHAT'S THE TIMELINE FOR THAT PROJECT? WE JUST STARTED WORKING ON IT. THEY'RE WORKING ON IT RIGHT NOW WITH THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE. THEY HAVE A DESIGN PEOPLE AND AND WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE ALL THIS STUFF MADE. WE'RE GOING TO PAY FOR IT. YEAH. I MEAN, IT'S IT'S A CITY PARK. SO I KNOW, AND I'M WORKING ON A THING OUT BY ON MYRTLE STREET RIGHT NOW. IT'S FOR THE TROLLEY CAR TRACK. WE WANT TO PUT A SIGN OUT THERE ON THE TROLLEY CAR TRACK ON MYRTLE AS LITTLE REST AREA THERE TO SHOW WHAT THE TROLLEY CAR TRACK LOOKED LIKE WHEN IT WAS HERE. SO SO YEAH, ELIZABETH, BECAUSE THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE HAS THEIR

[01:00:02]

YEAH, I THINK SHE'S WORKING WITH WILD CONSERVANCY AND CONSERVANCY AND THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE. SO YOU COULD DEFINITELY GET A MIX OF THAT BEFORE IT'S ALL CREATED. WHAT'S HER LAST NAME? I'LL SEND YOU HER CONTACT. OH, COOL. WHAT'S THE TIMELINE FOR THE SIGN PROJECT? YOU IDEA? WE DON'T HAVE A SET ONE BECAUSE THIS IS LIKE WE WANT TO GET THIS EARLY PART RIGHT. BUT WE WERE THINKING WE WOULD AIM TO, BY THE END OF THIS YEAR, GET AN ESTHETIC SELECTED AND THEN WORK OVER THE WINTER TO KIND OF BUILD THAT OUT WITH SOME SUPPLEMENTAL SIGNS. AND THEN WE COULD WORK WITH THE FABRICATORS AND DO INSTALLS WHERE WHEREVER IT MAKES THE MOST SENSE NEXT SPRING. OKAY. THIS IS THE TYPE OF THING WHERE YOU ROLL IT OUT KIND OF AS YOU'RE DOING INTERVENTIONS IN PARKS. YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST A LOT TO DO SIGNS FOR, YOU KNOW, 30 PLUS PARKS. SO IT WOULD BE TYPICALLY ROLLED OUT IN PHASES. AND JUST THE LAST THING I KNOW YOU GUYS HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE PACKET, BUT FOR REFERENCE, SIGNS GET MADE WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT MATERIALS. AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HAVE CEDAR POSTS, YOU CAN HAVE A METAL LOOK POST, YOU CAN HAVE A, A COMPOSITE WOOD POST. MOST PEOPLE AREN'T PAYING THAT MUCH ATTENTION. AND TO THEM, IT'S JUST A POST. IT'S WOOD, YOU KNOW, BUT WE'LL END UP SWAPPING OUT MATERIALS BASED ON THE PRICE POINTS THAT WE GET WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT COMMISSIONING THESE SIGNS. AND THERE'S MAINTENANCE AND DURABILITY CONCERNS AS WELL AS THE INITIAL INVESTMENT. SO TYPICALLY WE PROPOSE CEDAR BECAUSE IT'S READILY AVAILABLE AND IT'S WEATHER RESISTANT, IT'S PRETTY AFFORDABLE. BUT YOU KNOW, WE CAN UPGRADE TO OTHER THINGS. IF IT'S ANY CONSOLATION, I LOVE THE CEDAR POST. I LOVE LIKE THE WELL, I LOVE THE TIE TO THE LUMBERING INDUSTRY IN STILLWATER. SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY COOL. OKAY. AND THEN YOU KIND OF SEE LIKE HOW A LOT OF THE HARDWARE ENDS UP LOOKING.

SO WE DON'T TYPICALLY DRAW THE HARDWARE IN WHEN WE'RE DESIGNING EVERYTHING. BUT YOU KNOW, USUALLY WE'RE DOING LIKE FOOTINGS KIND OF SIMILAR TO THIS WHERE YOU HAVE SORT OF THE BASE PLATE, YOU HAVE THE CAP, WHICH ALSO HELPS KEEP WATER OUT OF THE END GRAIN OF THE WOOD.

SO THAT'S KIND OF A NICE DETAIL. IS THERE A WAY TO RIFF THE, THE TOP AND THE BOTTOM TO LIKE THE STREET LIGHTS THAT WE HAVE NOW? YEAH, THEY'RE JUST BLACK, ARE THEY NOT? THEY'RE JUST BLACK.

BUT JUST IN TERMS OF LIKE THE DETAILS OF THE FOOTING AT THE FOOT, I COULD TAKE SOME PHOTOS AND KIND OF PLAY WITH THAT IF THERE'S ANY SORT OF LIKE JUST, YEAH, I'M JUST TRYING TO CONNECT ALL THOSE THINGS. YEAH, WE'LL HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT COSTS BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THIS IS PRETTY SIMPLE AND EASY TO FABRICATE. ANYTIME YOU'RE DOING ANYTHING WITH LIKE CURVED DETAILING, WE DON'T WANT TO LIKE GET EVERYTHING TO CUSTOM, BUT I CAN LOOK INTO THAT. IT'S A PREMIER CITY. NOT EVERYBODY IS LOOKING DOWN WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE SIGNS. BUT YEAH, I MEAN, BUT IT'LL IT'S LIKE, I MEAN, FOR ME, LIKE THE SECOND YOU PUT THESE THINGS IN PIONEER PARK OR TEDDY BEAR PARK UP AGAINST LIKE BUILDINGS FROM OVER 100 YEARS AGO, THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BECOME SO MORE OBVIOUS THAT THOSE THINGS ARE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE REST OF THE CITY IS, AND NOT NECESSARILY OF JUST LIKE, OH, THAT'S JUST LIKE THIS BIG THING THAT'S LIKE FLASHING AT YOU AND DOESN'T FIT. CONNECT WITH THE CITY. YEAH. SO I GUESS THAT MY OTHER FOLLOW UP QUESTION IS IN TERMS OF THE PROCESS IS ON ME RIGHT NOW, BUT I WILL, OR YOU CAN SEND ME IF YOU WANT TO JUST SEND IT TO HER. YES. SCRAP THIS. YEAH. SO I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO KIND OF TIE THOSE DETAILS TOGETHER WHERE WE CAN. DOES THIS ALSO HAVE TO THEN GO THROUGH TO THROUGH THE HISTORICAL PRESERVATION COMMITTEE? BECAUSE WHEN WE PUT THE SIGN DOWNTOWN FOR THE PHOTO BOOTH THING, RIGHT? YEAH. THAT HAD TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PRESERVATION COMMITTEE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A WHOLE SET OF RULES FOR SIGNAGE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

I'M NOT SURE. I'LL HAVE TO TALK WITH SEAN AND CHAT ABOUT THAT. I DO KNOW WE HAVE. SO THE SAME GRAPHIC DESIGNER FROM OUR OFFICE WHO'S WORKING ON THIS IS ALSO WORKING ON THE HISTORICAL SIGNAGE PROJECT. SO SHE'S TAPPED IN AND WE ARE THINKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CONSISTENCY

[01:05:02]

YEAH. THANK YOU. YEAH. THAT'S GREAT. THANKS FOR THE TIME TODAY. AGREED. WE HAVE JUST A LITTLE BIT. I'M JUST WONDERING IF I'M COLORBLIND. GREEN LIGHT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP SLIGHTLY GREEN. THIS ONE? YEAH, IT IS A GREEN UNDERTONE. GRAY IS INCLUDE. YEAH, A SPECIFIC COLORWAY USUALLY. SAME WITH BROWN. BROWN IS COMPRISED OF CHOCOLATE. YES. YEAH. MY HUSBAND THINKS I'M. SO I'M JUST WONDERING, SHALL I KEEP THIS? WELL, THAT'S THE ARGUMENT IF YOU WOULD LIKE. YEAH, I THINK THESE ARE THE. THANK YOU. I SO APPRECIATE PEOPLE COMING WITH GRAPHIC. I PULLED A PAN OUT OF THE PLAYBOOK TO COME WITH HER PIECES OF PAPER. YEAH. YOU JUST HAVE TO WRITE PROMOTIONAL. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. MISSED ONE. A PAM. I MISS HER. SO I WAS PRINTING IT OUT. I WAS LIKE, OH, I'LL JUST PICK IT UP. SO IS THERE GOING TO BE A FONT SHOWDOWN AT THE NEXT MEETING? ALL RIGHT, MR. KLOPPENBERG, YOU'RE UP. I'LL BRING MY PHONE.

[5. Covered Outdoor Hockey Rink - Stillwater Area Hockey Association]

WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS PROJECT IS A LITTLE BIT WHAT MR. PAULINA MENTIONED, BUT WHEN THE REC CENTER WAS BUILT, THAT WAS 25, ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO NOW. YEAH. AND THE BEST DATA I CAN

[01:10:07]

THIS YEAR WE HAVE THE MOST MEMBERS WE'VE EVER HAD, TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, WERE 1015 PLAYERS THIS YEAR. SO MORE THAN TRIPLE OR ABOUT TRIPLE WHAT WE WERE AT THE TIME. SO AT THE TIME, THE REC CENTER WAS BUILT AT ABOUT 350 SKATERS OR SO. WE HAD THREE ICE RINKS REC CENTER, SOUTH AND NORTH SHORTLY AFTER, AND LILY LAKE. SO NOW FROM 350 SKATERS TO ABOUT 1015 SKATERS, WE STILL HAVE THE SAME THREE RINKS. SO TO HAVE THE SAME ICE AVAILABILITY PER PARTICIPANT TODAY, WE WOULD TECHNICALLY NEED EIGHT ICE ARENAS IN STILLWATER. AND WE STILL HAVE JUST THE THREE. SO WHAT'S HAPPENED IS WE'VE KIND OF FALLEN WOEFULLY BEHIND IN TERMS OF ACCESSIBILITY FOR THE KIDS. AND WHAT I THINK IS PROBABLY BEEN THE BIGGEST FRUSTRATION FOR ME SINCE BECOMING PRESIDENT IS THAT LAST YEAR AND THIS YEAR WERE THE FIRST TWO YEARS THAT WE WERE SO SHORT ON ICE THAT WE ACTUALLY HAD TO CAP OUR PROGRAM AND TURN FAMILIES AWAY WHO WANTED TO PLAY HOCKEY, AND THERE WAS NO OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO PLAY HOCKEY. SO WE'RE COMPLETELY SOLD OUT AND WE CAN'T ACCEPT ANY MORE MEMBERS. I WOULD SAY THE OTHER THING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'D LOVE TO SEE CHANGE IS THAT STILLWATER AMATEUR HOCKEY SPENDS MORE THAN $1 MILLION A YEAR BUYING ICE. SO I JUST WROTE A BILL TO THE CITY JUST THE OTHER DAY FOR A 600, $600,000 CHECK THAT WE HAD TO WRITE OUT FOR ICE. SO WE SPEND A LOT OF MONEY IN THE CITY OF STILLWATER BUYING ICE. UNFORTUNATELY, NOW, BECAUSE WE BUY EVERY AVAILABLE HOUR OF ICE IN THE CITY OF STILLWATER AND IT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH, WE'RE SPENDING ABOUT A HALF $1 MILLION IN OTHER COMMUNITIES. SO WE'RE BUYING EVERY AVAILABLE HOUR OF ICE IN SOMERSET RIVER FALLS, HUDSON, NORTH SAINT PAUL, TARTAN, SAINT PAUL, NEW SAINT THOMAS RINK. WE'RE SENDING OUR FAMILIES TO ALL THE OTHER COMMUNITIES, AND WE'RE SENDING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO OTHER COMMUNITIES. AWESOME PROBLEM TO HAVE. AND BY THE WAY, I HAPPEN TO BE REPRESENTING STILLWATER YOUTH HOCKEY, BUT THE STILLWATER FIGURE SKATING GROUP AND ALL THE OTHER COMMUNITY UNITS OF THE USERS OF THE ICE ARENA KIND OF GET BUCKETED INTO THE SAME CONVERSATION ON A PERCENTAGE BASIS. THEY'RE KIND OF ALL EQUALLY SHORT. SO WE'D REALLY LIKE TO FIND A WAY TO GET ANOTHER ICE ARENA BUILT. WE KNOW THAT IT'S COST PROHIBITIVE TO BUILD ANOTHER FULL, ENCLOSED, TRADITIONAL SHEET RIGHT NOW. AND SO WE'VE BEEN SPENDING A LOT OF TIME LOOKING AT WHAT OTHERS ACROSS THE STATE HAVE BEEN DOING, WHO HAVE BEEN KIND OF IN THE SAME SITUATION DOWN THE RIGHT. IT JUST MENTIONS A FEW OF THE OTHER FACILITIES THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT THAT ARE JUST LIKE THIS EDINA, SAINT LOUIS PARK, GRAND RAPIDS, EAGAN, LAKEVILLE. AND IN TOTAL, THERE'S TEN OF THEM EITHER BEING BUILT OR HAVE BEEN BUILT RIGHT NOW. AND AS ICE PLANTS, THEY CALL THEM, THE ACTUAL REFRIGERATION SYSTEMS HAVE GOTTEN BETTER. IT'S KIND OF MADE THIS FACILITY A REALITY. SO IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

THANK YOU. SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THESE LOOK LIKE. YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT THEY'RE FAR MORE COST EFFECTIVE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT PUTTING IN HVAC SYSTEMS. YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO HEAT AND COOL THEM IN THE WINTER AND SUMMER MONTHS. THEY'RE ALL OPEN AIR, BUT WITH THE COVERED SURFACE, THE SUN STAYS OFF THE ICE. AND AS A RESULT, THE ACTUAL ICE SURFACE STAYS A VERY, VERY HIGH QUALITY FROM ABOUT SEPTEMBER TO MARCH. AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY ICE SHORTAGE IN THE SUMMER. THAT'S THAT'S OF NO NEED OF OURS. ALL THE ICE SHORTAGE IS EFFECTIVELY FROM SEPTEMBER TO OCTOBER WHEN THE ACTUAL SEASON IS RUNNING. AND THEN THE REALLY NICE THING IS THAT THESE FACILITIES HAVE, IN ALMOST EVERY COMMUNITY IN WHICH THEY'VE BEEN BUILT, THEY'VE ENDED UP BEING A PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP, MOST PRINCIPALLY BETWEEN THE HOCKEY ASSOCIATION, FIGURE SKATING ASSOCIATION AND THE CITY. BUT THEN THE USERS IN THE SUMMER END UP BEING THE LACROSSE COMMUNITY, THE SOCCER COMMUNITY, BASEBALL AND SOFTBALL, SO THAT THEY'VE GOT A RAIN OR SHINE LOCATION FOR PRACTICE AS WELL. IN THIS CASE, THEY CONVERT IT WITH TURF TO A FUTSAL COURT, AND THE EDINA YOUTH SOCCER ASSOCIATION USES IT IN ALL THE OFF SEASON MONTHS. SO IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, I'LL TAKE A PAUSE HERE FOR QUESTIONS. JUST A COUPLE OTHER EXAMPLES. THIS IS THE ONE THAT WAS BUILT IN SAINT LOUIS PARK. I PUT THIS IN HERE, THOUGH. IT'S NOT THE TYPE OF APPROACH THAT WE WOULD WANT TO TAKE. AND STILLWATER, IT'S BEAUTIFUL. IF YOU'VE BEEN TO THIS ARENA, IT'S LIKE PUBLIC ART, BUT THEY PROBABLY SPENT DOUBLE ON THIS. WHAT YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU WOULD TRADITIONALLY SPEND THEY'VE GOT THESE BEAUTIFUL WOODEN GLULAM BEAMS. IT'S ACTUALLY A FABRIC SURFACE RATHER THAN A METAL SURFACE OVER THE ROOF. SO IT'S VERY BEAUTIFUL, BUT FROM A COST PERSPECTIVE, UNNECESSARY. BUT IT'S FUN TO SEE WHAT SOME OF THE OTHER COMMUNITIES DO. IN THIS CASE, SAINT LOUIS PARK DECIDED TO JUST MAKE IT A REAL SHOWPIECE OF THE TOWN, AND AS A RESULT, THEY HOST MINNESOTA WILD PRACTICES. THERE A WHOLE HOST OF TOURNAMENTS. IT'S A TERRIFIC FACILITY, BUT PROBABLY ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT WE'D CONSIDER HERE. SO IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT ONE, I'LL JUST GIVE JUST A COUPLE OTHERS. THE ONE, SAINT LOUIS PARK IS BEAUTIFUL. MY GRANDDAUGHTER PLAYED THERE A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. IT'S UNBELIEVABLE. YEAH, THERE. IT'S REALLY NICE. THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF, I THINK, THE TYPE OF THING THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT. SIMILAR TO EDINA'S. THIS WAS BUILT UP IN GRAND RAPIDS, A REALLY NICE COVERED FACILITY. THEY BROUGHT THE ROOF LEVEL

[01:15:02]

SO IF YOU'RE STANDING NEAR THE BOARDS, IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T QUITE REACH THE ROOF.

IT'S MAYBE 12FT UP AT THE LOWEST POINT, BUT IT REALLY KEEPS THE WIND OUT. IT KEEPS THE SNOW OUT. IT REALLY ALLOWS IT TO BE USED KIND OF RAIN OR SHINE, SNOW, ANYTHING BUT THE HIGHEST WINDS. AND IT'S A TERRIFIC FACILITY FOR GAMES AND PRACTICE. IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT LOCATION, THIS ONE'S ACTUALLY PRETTY CLOSE BY IN TERMS OF COST EFFECTIVENESS. WHAT EAGAN DID WAS REALLY COST EFFECTIVE. IT'S PROBABLY NOT QUITE AS ESTHETIC AS SOME OF THE OTHERS, BUT IT'S A VERY SIMPLE BUILDING DESIGN. IT'S A VERY EFFECTIVE BUILDING DESIGN. AND THEY WORKED WITH JLG ARCHITECTS, THE SAME ARCHITECTURE FIRM WE'RE WORKING WITH. AND ONE OF THE NICE THINGS ABOUT THE APPROACH THAT THEY TOOK DOWN IN EAGAN IS THAT THIS BUILDING WAS VERY SPECIFICALLY BUILT WITH THE STYLE OF TRUSS, WITH THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE TRUSSES, KIND OF EVERYTHING WENT INTO THE IDEA THAT YOU COULD ADD WALLS AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, IF EVER THE DEMAND WAS THERE FOR YEAR ROUND ICE, OR IF THE COMMUNITY CONTINUED TO GROW AND YOU DECIDED THAT YOU WANTED A FULL COVERED TRADITIONAL INDOOR ICE ARENA. THIS IS PRE BUILT SO THAT WALLS CAN BE ADDED AT A LATER DATE AND HAVE IT FULLY ENCLOSED, AND IT'S REALLY VERY COST EFFECTIVE TO ADD THE WALLS LATER. THEY ALSO DID A REALLY NICE JOB WITH THE WARMING HOUSE. THE PICTURE YOU SEE ON THE RIGHT, THERE'S A REALLY NICE COMMUNITY AREA FOR JUST THOSE IN THE COMMUNITY THAT ARE CHOOSING TO SKATE DURING OPEN HOURS AND THEN OFF TO THE SIDE. YOU DON'T SEE IT IN THE PICTURE. THERE'S TEAM LOCKER ROOMS FOR WHEN THE ACTUAL TEAMS ARE PRACTICING AND PLAYING, AND WE'LL JUST GO TO THE NEXT ONE HERE, AND THEN THIS ONE IS PROBABLY THE LEAST ESTHETICALLY PLEASING OF THE BUNCH DOWN IN LAKEVILLE. JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION, BUT IT WAS VERY COST EFFECTIVE. AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THEY KNEW FROM THE VERY FIRST DAY THEY PLANNED TO PUT FULL WALLS UP IN THE FUTURE. SO THEY ACTUALLY BUILT IT WITH A BIT OF A DIFFERENT GOAL IN MIND, THAT IT WOULD BE USED FOR ONLY A COUPLE OF YEARS BEFORE THE REMAINING WALLS WOULD BE ERECTED. THAT WAS KIND OF PURELY A FINANCIAL DECISION. I DON'T THINK IT'S THE RIGHT APPROACH FOR US, BUT BUT A GOOD EXAMPLE. AND THEN THE LAST PAGE IS THE LAST EXAMPLE, AND I'LL GIVE JUST A COUPLE OF OTHER PIECES OF INFO.

THIS WAS A TERRIFICALLY DONE FACILITY IN DELANO. THEY DID THIS RIGHT NEXT TO THEIR MAIN ICE FACILITY. SO THEY OBVIOUSLY GET THE BENEFIT OF HAVING A SHARED ZAMBONI, SHARED LOCKER ROOMS, THINGS LIKE THAT. REALLY BEAUTIFULLY DONE. ALSO DONE SUCH THAT IT CAN BE A COVERED FACILITY IN THE FUTURE. WALLS CAN BE ERECTED IF THEY EVER SO CHOSE. THEY HAD A LOT OF ACREAGE HERE, SO THEY WERE ALSO ABLE TO DO A THREE QUARTER RINK NEXT TO THIS RINK AND A LEISURE SKATING LOOP NEXT TO IT AS WELL. IT'S IT'S REALLY WELL DONE. WHAT THEY PUT TOGETHER. THE LAST THING I'LL MENTION, AND THEN I'LL JUST TAKE KIND OF OPEN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS, IS THAT WE NEVER WANTED TO ASSUME THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HAVE HELP WITH AS A HOCKEY ASSOCIATION, AS A FIGURE SKATING COMMUNITY. WE WANTED TO DETERMINE HOW MUCH COULD WE GET DONE BEFORE ASKING ANYBODY FOR ANYTHING. SO WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THE NHL AND THE MINNESOTA WILD. THE NHL ACTUALLY RECENTLY CREATED A NEW PROGRAM CALLED THE SKATE IT FORWARD PROGRAM, WHERE THEY CREATED A POOL OF MONEY SPECIFICALLY BUILT FOR PROJECTS LIKE THIS. THE NHL AND THE MINNESOTA WILD BELIEVE THAT HAVING MORE ICE FACILITIES BUILT, GIVING MORE KIDS ACCESS TO PARTICIPATE IN WINTER SPORTS, HOCKEY, FIGURE SKATING, THINGS LIKE THAT IS JUST GOOD FOR THE GAME. IT'S GOOD FOR KIDS, IT'S GOOD FOR SOCIETY. BUT THEY KNOW THAT MANY OF THESE PROJECTS STALL BEFORE THEY START BECAUSE JUST LAYING OUT THE FIRST 15 TO $35,000 FOR AN ARCHITECTURAL STUDY IS USUALLY MORE THAN THE AVERAGE LOCAL NONPROFIT CAN COME UP WITH JUST TO GET STARTED. SO THEY CREATED A POOL OF MONEY. THE NHL DISTRIBUTED THEIR POOL OF MONEY TO MOSTLY THEIR NORTHERN FRANCHISES, THE ONES THAT ARE CAPABLE OF HAVING A FACILITY LIKE THIS. AND THE MINNESOTA WILD RECEIVED EIGHT SLOTS, AND STILLWATER WAS APPROVED FOR ONE OF THOSE EIGHT SLOTS. SO WE'RE BEING GIVEN A CHECK THAT WILL EFFECTIVELY COVER 100% OF THE ARCHITECTURAL STUDY. SO THE NHL IS PARTNERED WITH JLG ARCHITECTS, WHICH IS A LOCAL MINNESOTA FIRM, AWESOME FIRM. THEY DO A TON OF ICE ARENA DEVELOPMENT, AND THE MINNESOTA WILD AND THE NHL WILL PAY 100% OF THEIR BILL TO US. SO WE WILL HAVE NO COST IN THIS.

THEY WILL CHOOSE A SITE IN TOWN THAT THEY BELIEVE IS VIABLE. THEY'LL PUT TOGETHER AN ENTIRE ARCHITECTURAL STUDY. THEY'LL LOOK AT UTILITIES, PARKING, WATER RUNOFF, ACTUAL BUILDING DESIGN. THEY'LL PUT TOGETHER THE MOCK UPS, FULL COST, GET CONSTRUCTION BIDS. SO THEY'LL DO ALL THAT WORK AT NO COST TO US, NO COST TO ANYBODY. THAT TAKES BETWEEN 90 AND 120 DAYS.

WE'RE JUST AT THE FRONT END OF THAT NOW. SO THIS IS MORE OF JUST AN INFORMATION SHARING SESSION. THERE'S NO ASK AT THIS TIME. AND WE WOULD EXPECT THEN THAT THAT JLG ARCHITECTURAL STUDY AND PROPOSAL WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR REVIEW IN 3 TO 4 MONTHS. AND AT THAT POINT, THEN WE'D HAVE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, REALLY SOUND TO LOOK AT AND TO CONSIDER. BEFORE WE TOOK THIS FURTHER, I WANTED TO BRING IT TO YOU FOR A RECOMMENDATION AND SHOW YOU WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT DOING. WE GAVE THEM WE GAVE YOU THREE SITES, FOUR SITES FOR. YEAH, I THINK WE GAVE THEM FOUR

[01:20:02]

WE WANTED TO GET. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE HAD A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PARK COMMISSION THAT YOU'RE OKAY WITH A FACILITY LIKE THIS. THERE'S NO RISK TO US. THEY'RE THE ONES DOING ALL THE WORK. AND IT'S MUCH LIKE WE LIKE I SAID, WE DID 30 YEARS AGO WHEN MY MY KIDS WERE WHEN I WAS DOING THE SAME THING. AND THEY HAVE THE GRANT TO DO THE STUDY AND SEE WHAT WOULD WORK. I GUESS THE PLACE WE'RE KIND OF LEANING FOR IS THE ONE ON MANNING AND 96, THAT LITTLE SOCCER FIELD RIGHT THERE. WE GOT THAT LAND DONATED TO US A FEW YEARS AGO, AND WE PUT THAT LITTLE SOCCER FIELD. WELL, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO LOSE THAT SOCCER FIELD BECAUSE THEY HAVE IT SET UP FOR THE THE SUMMER FOR KIDS AND THEN BATTING CAGES.

SO IT WOULD WORK. I DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO SEE IT RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF STILLWATER. I WAS ACTUALLY LOOKING AT NORTHLAND PARK. BUT IT'S KIND OF WORTHLESS. I MEAN, WE COULD EVEN PUT A REFRIGERATION UNIT IN THERE AND WE HAVE A WARMING HOUSE. BUT EVEN WITH THE REFRIGERATION UNIT, THE SUN HEATS THE ICE TO DEATH AND WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH A BETTER WAY TO DO SOMETHING. SO AND THAT'S I WANTED TO GET A RECOMMENDATION FROM YOU, IF YOU LIKE THE CONCEPT. THEY'RE DOING ALL THE WORK. WE HAVE NO SKIN IN THE GAME OTHER THAN GIVING THEM A PLACE TO HAVE IT. WE THOUGHT THE ONE ON THE HIGHWAY OUT THERE WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE THE PARKING LOTS. THE PARKING LOTS ALREADY BEEN DESIGNED FOR TO HANDLE FOUR FULL SOCCER TEAMS IN THERE NOW BECAUSE IT'S SOCCER, SO THE PARKING LOT IS BIG ENOUGH. THE ONE ON BUILDING, THE ONE THAT'S GOT LIKE 50 SPOTS ON IT. THAT'S WHAT THEY SEAN TOLD ME TODAY THAT BARELY HOLDS THE TWO TEAMS THAT ARE THERE WHEN IT'S THERE. WELL, IT'S JUST FOR LIKE THE DURING TRANSITIONS, YOU KNOW, IT CAN HOLD TWO TEAMS. BUT THEN WHEN ONE TEAM IS LEAVING, THE OTHERS ARE SHOWING UP. YOU KNOW, EVEN IF YOU HAVE BOTH TEAMS THERE ON A REGULAR BASIS, THAT WHOLE PARKING LOT IS FULL FOR A SINGLE GAME. THAT PARKING LOT IS NOT BIG ENOUGH. AND I THINK THAT JUST FROM A STUDY PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, SINCE JLG HAS DONE MANY OF THESE, YOU KNOW, PARKING IS A PART OF THEIR ANALYSIS AS WELL IN TERMS OF WHAT SITES ARE. I THINK THAT'S THE TRICKY PART ABOUT THAT. MILLBROOK ONE IS THAT IT'S THE EASEMENT RIGHT IN BETWEEN THE TWO, THAT CONSERVATION EASEMENT. YEAH. IN BETWEEN THE OTHER ONES. YEAH.

YEAH. DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION. I HAVE SEVERAL QUESTIONS. AND THEY DON'T RUN TOGETHER.

THEY'RE JUST LIKE KIND OF RANDOM QUESTIONS. AND SO I HOPE YOU'LL BEAR WITH ME. ABSOLUTELY.

I'M NOT A HOCKEY PLAYER. I DIDN'T GROW UP PLAYING HOCKEY. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH LIKE THE ICE AND LIKE ALL THE TECHNOLOGY AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO I JUST HAVE LIKE LOGISTICAL QUESTIONS.

SO WITH IT BEING KIND OF OUTDOOR AND NOT ENCLOSED AND CLIMATE CHANGE TRENDING THE WAY THAT IT IS, WE'RE WE'RE GETTING WARMER WINTERS, LIKE LOOKING DOWN THE FUTURE, RIGHT? THIS YEAR WE'RE IN AN EL NINO, SUPER EL NINO, AND IT'S GOING TO BE PRETTY WARM. WILL THAT RINK BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO SUSTAIN ICE LIKE AS OUR OUR WINTERS GET WARMER AND WARMER? OR WILL IT EVENTUALLY NEED TO BE ENCLOSED TO PRESERVE THE QUALITY OF THE ICE? YEAH, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. YEAH. SO THE ICE PLANTS THEY CALL THEM HAVE COME A LONG WAY OVER THE YEARS. AND I WOULD SAY THE SYSTEMS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED. AND ACTUALLY, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND GOING BACK TO MAYBE TO THE FIRST ONE, TO THE EDINA ONE. YEAH. SO THIS HAS A NEWER ICE PLANT HERE AND IT'S BEEN EFFECTIVE UP TO ABOUT 60 DEGREES. SO EVEN THOUGH TECHNICALLY YOU WOULDN'T PUT IN ICE BEFORE OCTOBER BECAUSE WE DON'T NEED IT BEFORE, AND YOU MIGHT AS WELL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF FALL SOCCER AND THINGS LIKE THAT. YOU ACTUALLY COULD GO QUITE A BIT EARLIER THAN THAT. AND IF YOU'VE EVER WATCHED ANY OF THE OUTDOOR HOCKEY GAMES, LIKE ON TV, THEY'VE HOSTED THEM IN DALLAS, THEY'VE HOSTED THEM IN CAROLINA. LIKE IT'S THESE ICE PLANTS ARE PRETTY AMAZING. SO IT'S REALLY FANTASTIC ICE UP TO 60 DEGREES, WITH THE KEY BEING THAT THE COVERED ROOF KEEPING THE SUN OFF IS KIND OF LIKE THE. THAT'S KIND OF THE

[01:25:01]

AND THEN MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO THAT PARTICULAR AREA THAT I HAVE A QUESTIONS ABOUT THE COST OF LIKE ENERGY TO ACTUALLY LIKE GET THE ICE MADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT. WOULD THAT FALL ONTO STILLWATER TAXPAYER DOLLARS, OR WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT THE HOCKEY ASSOCIATION LIKE? WOULD YOU BE FOOT IN THE BILL FOR PAYING FOR THOSE REFRIGERATORS TO BE UP AND RUNNING? YEAH, IT'S IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. YOU KNOW, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE ACTUALLY REMARKABLY ENERGY EFFICIENT, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT THE ACTUAL LIKE BILLS FROM LIKE THE REC CENTER, WELL, YOU KNOW, LILY LAKE IS A BIT OUTDATED IN MANY WAYS, AS WE KNOW, BUT THE ACTUAL COST IS, YOU KNOW, PRETTY MODEST. AND IT'S CERTAINLY MORE THAN COVERED, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF THE COST PER ICE THAT WE PAY TO THOSE FACILITIES. SO LIKE STILLWATER YOUTH HOCKEY, WE PAY ABOUT $250 PER HOUR TO RENT EACH SHEET AT THE REC CENTER AND LILY LAKE.

SO WHEN WE ARE WRITING THAT ROUGHLY MILLION DOLLAR CHECK PER YEAR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE PAYING FOR AND BUILT WITHIN THAT COST IS OBVIOUSLY PERSONNEL UPKEEP, ENERGY AND ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE NECESSARY DEPENDING ON EXACTLY HOW THE FINANCING OF SOMETHING LIKE THIS COMES TOGETHER. EVERY KIND OF PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT MODEL. BUT IF YOU JUST PRETEND FOR A MOMENT THAT THE CITY WAS, YOU KNOW, OPERATING THIS FACILITY, THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE CASE, BUT PRETEND IT WAS JUST LIKE THE REC CENTER. THEN WE'D BE PAYING AN HOURLY RATE FOR ICE, NO DIFFERENT THAN ANYWHERE ELSE.

SO THEN BUILT WITHIN THAT WOULD BE ALL THE COSTS REQUIRED TO MANAGE IT PROFITABLY. SO THEN THAT DOVETAILS NICELY INTO ANOTHER KIND OF QUESTION THAT I HAVE. WOULD YOU ENVISION THIS ICE TO BE KIND OF LIKE PRIVATE FOR THE HOCKEY ASSOCIATION, OR WOULD YOU ENVISION IT WHERE WHEN THE HOCKEY TEAMS AREN'T HAVING THEIR PRACTICE OR THEIR GAMES, COMMUNITY MEMBERS COULD COME AND SKATE AS WELL? DEFINITELY THE LATTER. YEAH, THAT'S WORKED REALLY WELL IN A LOT OF OTHER COMMUNITIES. THE NICE THING IS THAT IT'S BEEN A TERRIFIC. THE MINNESOTA WILD HAVE BEEN A GREAT CONDUIT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES ARE SHARING INFORMATION. SO I'VE BEEN ABLE TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME WITH THE PRESIDENTS AT THESE OTHER ASSOCIATIONS AND A LOT OF THE OTHER CITIES. AND IN MOST CASES, WHAT THEY'VE DONE IS PRE-SCHEDULED DEDICATED OPEN TIME. SO THAT THAT WAY THE HOCKEY ASSOCIATION, THE FIGURE SKATING ASSOCIATION, HAVE THE TIMES THAT THEY KNOW THEY CAN BOOK BECAUSE THEY JUST KIND OF LOGISTICALLY NEED THAT CLARITY. AND THEN THE COMMUNITY KNOWS WHAT TIMES THAT IT'S ALWAYS OPEN FOR OPEN SKATE OPEN, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC OPEN HOCKEY, THINGS LIKE THAT. HOW MANY HOURS YOU WANT TO BE TRULY OPEN IS COMPLETELY UP FOR CONVERSATION. BUT THAT'S WORKED REALLY WELL IN OTHER COMMUNITIES. WE'D EXPECT TO DO THE SAME HERE. AND ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE. SORRY, KIND OF KEEP GOING. OKAY. I SAW IN THE PICTURES THAT THERE REALLY ISN'T ANY KIND OF LIKE BENCH OR STADIUM SEATING FOR PARENTS TO LIKE, SIT AND WATCH THEIR KIDS.

IF I HAD A KID IN HOCKEY, I WOULD WANT TO STAY IN LIKE WATCH THEIR PRACTICE OR WATCH THEIR GAME. ARE YOU THINKING THAT, LIKE, WOULD THE PURPOSE OF THIS JUST BE FOR PRACTICES? OR WOULD YOU WANT LIKE SOMETHING MORE WHERE PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT CAN COME AND WATCH THEIR KIDDOS? IT'S AN AWESOME QUESTION. SO THIS IS A LOT OF WHAT ENDS UP COMING OUT OF THIS, LIKE JLG ARCHITECTURAL STUDY. AND A LOT OF IT BECOMES COST TRADE OFFS AND PHYSICAL SITE, YOU KNOW, TRADE OFFS AS WELL. YOU NEED A BIT MORE PHYSICAL SPACE IN THOSE SITUATIONS. BUT IF YOU JUST PRETEND FOR A MOMENT THAT WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF FLEXIBILITY ON COST, AND LET'S SAY WE HAD THE FLEXIBILITY NECESSARY IN TERMS OF THE PHYSICAL ACREAGE OF THE LOCATION YOU WOULD ABSOLUTELY DESIRE THERE TO BE STANDS. I MEAN, THE GREAT THING ABOUT STILLWATER, YOU KNOW, IS WE ALL KNOW IS IT'S BECOME JUST AN AWESOME DESTINATION. AND THE HOCKEY PROGRAM, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF SUCCESS. I THINK IT'S JUST VIEWED REALLY FAVORABLY STATEWIDE. SO A LOT OF TEAMS WANT TO COME PLAY HERE. SO IT'S A BIG DEAL TO OTHER COMMUNITIES TO COME TO STILLWATER. THEY PLAN THEIR DAYS AROUND IT. THEY HAVE TEAM DINNERS HERE. THEY REALLY LIKE LOVE COMING FOR GAMES. AND IF WE'RE ABLE TO GET THIS BUILT, THE AMOUNT OF TEAMS FROM OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT WILL DESIRE TO COME HERE AND PLAY AN OUTDOOR GAME IN STILLWATER, I THINK IT'LL BE JUST A DEMAND OFF THE CHARTS, WHICH NATURALLY MAKES YOU WANT TO ACCOMMODATE, YOU KNOW, THE GAMES RATHER THAN JUST THE

[01:30:01]

SO IF WE'RE ABLE TO BUILD IT THAT WAY, WE WOULD DESIRE IT AND IT WOULD GET USED FOR SURE.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'LL SEE THE COST TRADE OFFS AND HAVE TO MAKE SOME DECISIONS.

AND THEN MY VERY LAST QUESTION I HAVE, AND THEN I'LL LET OTHER PEOPLE ASK THEIR QUESTIONS. ARE MOST OF THE KIDDOS FROM ACTUAL STILLWATER PROPER OR ARE THEY FROM SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES LIKE LAKE ELMO, WOODBURY, THAT KIND OF STUFF TOO? AND HAVE YOU LOOKED AT RENTING ICE FACILITIES IN KIND OF ADJACENT TOWNS AND AREAS? YEAH, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. SO THE MAJORITY ARE FROM STILLWATER. SO LIKE, IF I WERE TO PULL UP OUR REGISTRATION REPORT OF ALL 1000 FAMILIES, YOU'D SEE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THEM HAVE STILLWATER ADDRESS. BUT OBVIOUSLY AN INCREASING NUMBER ARE LAKE ELMO, JUST WITH THE AMOUNT OF BUILDING AND THE AMOUNT OF GROWTH THERE. SO THERE'S PLENTY OF THAT AS WELL. WOODBURY THERE'S A TINY LITTLE POCKET OF WOODBURY THAT IS ACTUALLY TECHNICALLY STILLWATER SCHOOL DISTRICT. SO THERE ARE SOME THERE. TOWNSHIP OR. YEAH. YEAH, EXACTLY. YEP, YEP. BUT THE MAJORITY AND I'M TECHNICALLY RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF MARINE IN STILLWATER, WHERE I LIVE PERSONALLY, BUT THE MAJORITY ARE STILLWATER PROPER. AND UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE NO OTHER ICE FACILITIES IN THE AREA. YOU KNOW, WE DO RENT FROM WOODBURY, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH ALL SOLD OUT TO. WE DO SEND OUR KIDS TO RIVER FALLS TO SOMERSET, TO HUDSON, TO SAINT PAUL, TO TARTAN. WE PRETTY MUCH BUY EVERY OTHER AVAILABLE ICE. OUR. WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WITHIN LIKE A 2030 MILE RADIUS. SO WE'RE DOING THAT ALREADY AND WE'RE STILL ABOUT 500 HOURS SHORT THIS YEAR, EVEN FOR THE KIDS THAT ARE IN THE ASSOCIATION. SO THE ENTIRE ARENA WITH THOSE. SO AN ARENA IS EFFECTIVELY OPEN ABOUT 500 HOURS A YEAR. SO WE WOULD BASICALLY USE EVERY SINGLE HOUR IMMEDIATELY, YOU KNOW, UPON OPENING, WHICH IS GREAT. SO IN THEORY, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, LAKE ELMO BUILD AN ICE ARENA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THAT'D BE, THAT'D BE TERRIFIC. AND MAYBE SOMEDAY IN THE FUTURE THEY WOULD CONSIDER IT ALL THE SAME.

I DON'T MIND THAT ALL OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE COMING INTO STILLWATER AND SPENDING THEIR MONEY HERE AND SPENDING THEIR TIME HERE AND GOING OUT TO EAT HERE AND DOING THOSE THINGS AS WELL. SO IT'S DEFINITELY THE HUB FOR SURE. AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, THANK YOU FOR BEARING WITH ME. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. QUESTIONS. I GUESS YOU HAVEN'T BEEN A MEMBER LONG ENOUGH. YOU KNOW DOUG BRADY, I HAVEN'T HAD HIM HERE TO TALK TO YOU A LOT. BUT OUR ICE ARENA IS NOW PAID FOR. OUR ICE ARENA PAID FOR ITS OPERATION. IT PAID FOR ITS DEBT SERVICE OFF THE FEES THAT THE HOCKEY PEOPLE AND THE FIGURE SKATERS THE HIGH SCHOOL PAYS OUR HOCKEY. OUR HOCKEY RINK IS NOW PAID OFF. IT'S BEEN PAID OFF FOR LIKE 2 OR 3 YEARS. SO THE OPERATION COSTS. DOUG DOES A GREAT JOB OUT THERE. THAT'S WHY I ALWAYS COMPLIMENT HIM. HE IT IT'S PAID. IT'S PAID FOR. IT'S ONE OF THE ONLY HOCKEY RINKS IN THEIR CENTERS IN THE STATE THAT PAYS FOR ITSELF. ANY QUESTIONS? YEAH. SO I'M GENERALLY LIKE, WE NEED TO EXPLORE THIS AND GO FOR IT. I THINK MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS JUST THE FEASIBILITY OF A SITE.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE, LOOKING AT THE ONES THAT YOU ALL PUT TOGETHER, BECAUSE I THINK BENSON WAS ON THERE TOO AS A POSSIBILITY. NO, WE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A CITY LIKE THAT. YEAH. AND I DON'T THINK IT I DON'T THINK IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE. YEAH. AND BECAUSE I WAS LOOKING AT LIKE THE SAINT LOUIS PARK ONE, I'M JUST TRYING TO GET AN EYEBALL OF LIKE WHAT THE ACREAGE IS. AND SO LIKE THE SAINT LOUIS PARK ONE, WHICH I THINK IS PROBABLY BIGGER THAN WHAT WE WOULD DO, STAINLESS PARK WAS LIKE .85 ACRES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO JUST SHY OF A FULL ACRE. RIGHT. AND SO BENSON, YOU COULDN'T GET TO IT AT BENSON. YOU COULD BARELY GET TO THAT AT SUNRISE. THE MILLBROOK ONE WAS TOUGH TO THE LACROSSE ONE YOU COULD DO. AND THAT'S ACTUALLY THE BIGGEST ONE BECAUSE IT'S MULTIPLE FIELDS. SO I THINK THAT'S MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS JUST TRYING TO HAVE THAT FEASIBILITY OF WHERE TO PUT IT. YEAH. MINE. MINE DO. YEAH. MINE TOO. AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, SO JLG WHAT THEY TYPICALLY DO IS THEY HAVE LIKE, THEY HAVE LIKE A LITTLE, IT'S RELATIVELY, YOU KNOW, KIND OF SHORT IN DURATION. IT'S A COUPLE OF WEEKS THAT THEY USUALLY SPEND JUST LOOKING AT THE VARIOUS POTENTIAL SITES. AND THEN BEFORE THEY ACTUALLY DO THE STUDY ITSELF, THEY TRY TO DETERMINE IF A SINGLE ONE IS VIABLE AND THEN SPEND ALL OF THEIR EFFORT ON THAT ONE VERSUS STUDYING A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SITES. THEY COULD, BUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE DOUBLE OR TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE THE COST, DEPENDING ON HOW MANY SITES YOU WANT TO STUDY. SO IN THAT INITIAL PERIOD IS WHEN WE LIKE THEIR RECOMMENDATION ON WHICH ONE IS TRULY VIABLE, WHICH ONE HAS NOT JUST THE ACREAGE, BUT THE ACCESSIBILITY, THE UTILITIES, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE THINGS. BUT I HAVE THE SAME, SAME, SAME THINGS ON MY MIND. YEAH. I'M MY MAIN CONCERN IS MAINTENANCE. WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT IN THE LONG RUN? LIKE EVEN AFTER IT'S PAID UP FRONT? AND IT SOUNDS BASED ON MIKE'S COMMENTS, THAT'S BEEN POSITIVE IN STILLWATER. SO I THINK THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT ARE SUBSIDED THERE. I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO

[01:35:08]

[01:40:04]

AND THAT GOES BACK TO THE OPERATIONS. YEAH. SO WE'VE WE'VE HAD DOUG BRADY IN THIS ALL ALONG. OKAY. SO SPEAKING OF THAT, SO THERE'S A USER FEE FOR THE CURRENT OPERATIONS, BUT THERE'S NOT LIKE A FUTURE BUILDING REPAIR OR WE'RE BUILDING. WELL, THAT'S THERE'S A FUND THERE NOW. OKAY, BECAUSE THE BUILDING'S PAID OFF. SO THOSE FUNDS GO INTO, YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO REPLACE THE DOME. OKAY. THAT WAS ANOTHER FEE. WE HAD TO PICK UP THE THE NEW DOME COST. AND THAT WAS LIKE 5 MILLION OR 6 MILLION, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO WE HAVE EXTRA FUNDS THERE AND DOUG HAS SOME FUNDS THERE. AND IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO HOW TO ACCESS REVENUES AND STUFF. BUT NO, THAT'S TOO MUCH. THAT'S TOO MUCH. OKAY. AND IT IS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE HOCKEY AND FIGURE SKATING JUST HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ACCUSTOMED TO HAVING TO BUY THEIR TIME. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, BALL SPORTS IN THE SUMMER DON'T HAVE THE SAME, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT ACCUSTOMED TO PAYING FIELD TIME, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST NOT AT THE SAME RATES, THINGS LIKE THAT. HOCKEY AND FIGURE SKATING ARE SO, YOU KNOW, BUILT INTO OUR BUDGET IS $250 AN HOUR TIMES THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF HOURS A YEAR. OR, YOU KNOW, THE OUTDOOR ONES, SOMETIMES IT'S SLIGHTLY REDUCED BECAUSE THE OPERATING COSTS ARE SLIGHTLY REDUCED. SOMETIMES IT'S MORE LIKE 100 OR $150 AN HOUR, BUT BUILT RIGHT WITHIN OUR BUDGET.

IS THAT SO? THE NICE THING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, ON DAY ONE, YOU HAVE A USER FUNDING IT EVERY SINGLE HOUR, YOU KNOW, IMMEDIATELY AND IN PERPETUITY. SO YOU'RE NEVER WORRYING, YOU KNOW, WHERE DOES THE UPKEEP DOLLARS COME FROM OR THE MAINTENANCE DOLLARS COME FROM? THAT'S JUST KIND OF FUNDAMENTALLY BUILT IN TO THE PROJECT. SO JUST TO BUILD OFF OF WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF LIKE MAXIMIZING ITS USE TO NOT JUST WITHIN, BUT ALSO OUTSIDE, RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW HOW THE COOLING SYSTEMS WORK AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT EVEN IF YOU CAN MAKE SNOW AND LIKE THINKING WE'VE HAD PEOPLE COME HERE ABOUT CROSS-COUNTRY SKIING BEFORE AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO I THINK IT'S WORTH LIKE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO SITE LIKE GOING TO OUR PARKS MASTER PLAN TO SEE WHERE WE HAD WINTER ACTIVITIES KIND OF DRAWN IN.

RIGHT? IN NORTHLAND PARK WAS ONE OF THOSE PLACES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING A LOT OF THOSE THINGS, RIGHT? IF YOU'RE TO COVER THAT HOCKEY RINK, I MEAN, PROJECT THAT SIZE, RIGHT? I MEAN, THAT FIELD, THE BASEBALL FIELD NEEDS TO GET REGRADED ANYHOW BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST DRAINAGE ISSUES AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF ANYHOW. SO THERE'S THE POSSIBILITY OF JUST KIND OF RETHINKING THAT WHOLE SPACE ANYHOW AND JUST FIXING EVERYTHING ALTOGETHER, RIGHT? FIXING THE FIELD, FIXING THE ICE RINK, AND THEN MAKING A WHOLE LIKE WINTER COMPLEX. I KNOW THAT'S SUPER CLOSE TO A NEIGHBORHOOD, OBVIOUSLY. WELL, THAT'S MY WHOLE CONCERN ABOUT THAT ONE. RIGHT? RIGHT. BUT I MEAN, TO EXPLORE IT AS LIKE A CREATE A CHALLENGE AND CREATIVITY OF HOW TO DESIGN SOMETHING THAT COULD FIT INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? IF WE WANT TO HIT THAT NOTE, RIGHT, THAT'S THE NOTE. BUT IF LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE COMING IN FROM OUTSIDE OF STILLWATER FOR GAMES AND TOURNAMENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, DO YOU WANT THAT IN YOUR BACKYARD? DO YOU WANT ALL OF THAT TRAFFIC DRIVING THROUGH YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD? THAT'S A CHALLENGE. THE CHALLENGE FOR ALL OF THEM REALLY BE IN OUR BACKYARD. YEAH. AND I'M GETTING I'M GETTING ABOUT THE PICKLEBALL ALL THE TIME. YEAH, YEAH. THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK ALL CARS. HOW DO THEY I HATE TO SUBJECT THAT WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD TO PICKLE OR A SKATING RINK ON TOP OF THE PICKLEBALL, BECAUSE IT'S PACKED. I THINK YOU WANT IT ON A CLOSED FACILITY DOWN AND NOT IN THE HEART OF A NEIGHBORHOOD. I GUESS I'M JUST ALSO THINKING BECAUSE I SEE HOW BUSY THE THE REC CENTER IS, RIGHT? LIKE, YEAH, THERE'S CARS EVERYWHERE.

PEOPLE ARE PARKING ON THE STREETS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. LIKE, DO YOU WANT YOUR DRIVEWAY BLOCKED? THAT'S WHY I DON'T THINK THAT THE MILLBROOK SITE EVEN WORKS. YEAH, I DON'T THINK SO EITHER. YEAH. WHICH ONE? THE WEST THAT SPOT IS. IT'S TIGHT. THAT'S SO HARD. WE HAVE SO MANY SPOTS THAT ALMOST WORK, RIGHT? LIKE, I KNOW THAT'S WHAT WE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT SOMETHING WE JUST THOUGHT THAT WOULD WORK FOR PRACTICE. YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF GAMES IN THERE, BUT IT'S MORE PRACTICAL. IT WOULD BE NICE PRACTICE ALONG ONE OF THE TRAIL

[01:45:04]

NO. I THINK BECAUSE I CAN JUST SO YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN WORKING ON LUMBERJACK LANDING. THIS IS WHEN YOU'RE THAT LITTLE LOOP. YEAH. THANK YOU. TERRIFIC. THANK YOU GUYS. I REALLY APPRECIATE THE TIME. SO WE WILL WELL, I'LL WORK WITH YOU ON WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE. FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, WE'D EXPECT THE STUDY ON WHATEVER SITES WE CHOOSE TO INCLUDE IN THE STUDY SHOULD BE 90 TO 100 DAYS OF WORK, 120 DAYS OF WORK, AT WHICH POINT THEN WE'LL HAVE A LOT TO LOT TO LOOK AT. GREAT. THANK YOU FOR COMING. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. SEE YOU. WHERE'S YOUR RIGHT HAND MAN? HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. HE HAD FOOT SURGERY. HE'S

[6. Staff Updates (no packet materials)]

I THOUGHT HE DID. I'LL I'LL GET THAT UP FOR YOU. YOU HAVE TRACKING SHEETS ON THURSDAY,

[01:50:04]

ALL RIGHT. SO NO, I DON'T. HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO PUT IT IN THERE. I DON'T SEE IT THOUGH.

NO. SEAN WAS GOING TO PUT IT IN THERE TONIGHT. OH HE MUST NOT HAVE. WELL I CAN JUST I CAN

[7. Commission Member Updates (no packet materials)]

I TALKED TO STAFF THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AND DO AN EVALUATION OF THE CONDITION OF LILY LAKE ICE ARENA. I MEAN, THEY HAVE THE BIG SKATE FOR THE ROSES FOR FOR YOUNG GIRLS IN THE IN THE RINK THERE I WAS GETTING CALLS AT HOME ON THE WEEKEND FROM PEOPLE FROM OUT OF TOWN ABOUT HOW THE BATHROOMS ARE DISGUSTING IN THAT, IN THAT, IN THAT ARENA. AND THEY HAVE TO GO TO THEY HAVE TO GO TO GAS STATIONS TO HAVE A GOOD HAVE A HAVE A NICE BATHROOM. SO WE DID AN EVALUATION. WE HAD A SEAN HIRED ISG WHO DOES EVALUATIONS OF ICE ARENAS. HOW CAN WE WHAT CAN WE DO TO LILY LAKE TO IMPROVE THE EXPERIENCE AT LILY LAKE? SO THE IDEA NOW IS REMEMBER THE WHERE THAT ENTRYWAY WAS ON THE EAST SIDE BY THE TENNIS COURTS THERE. THAT WOULD WE'D MOVE THAT ENTRYWAY FROM THE LAKESIDE, PUT IT OVER TO THE SIDE RIGHT THERE, AND YOU'D GO INTO THE RINK THAT WAY. AND THAT LOBBY AREA, THERE WOULD BE THAT WOULD BE THE NEW LOBBY IN THERE. AND THEY'D HAVE WINDOWS ALONG THE LAKE SO YOU CAN ENJOY THE LAKE OR WHATEVER IN THERE. AND THEN LIKE THE.

AND THAT WOULD GO INTO THE WHAT'S CURRENTLY THE ENTRYWAY AND THE BATHROOM. SO THAT'D BE ALL LOBBY AND JUST A PLACE FOR MEETING THE PEOPLE OR, YOU KNOW, GETTING TOGETHER. AND SO THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE, SO YOUR ICE PLANT WOULD STILL BE DOWN THERE WHERE IT IS NOW. SO THEN AS YOU GO DOWN FARTHER TO THE LOCKER ROOMS WOULD BE ON THE VERY END AT THE VERY SOUTH END, SOUTH END. OKAY. SO YOU WOULD PUT FOUR LOCKER ROOMS JUST LIKE WE HAVE NOW. OKAY. AND I WAS TRYING TO REMEMBER HOW THIS ALL WORKS OUT THERE ON THE WEST, AREN'T THEY ON THE WEST? THOSE LOCKER ROOMS FOR THE OR THE CHANGING ROOMS, THE CHANGING ROOMS ARE ON THE TWO ON THE SOUTH. ON THE SOUTH. OKAY. AND THEN THEY'RE ALONG THE EAST WALL. YEAH. SO THE OFFICE WOULD BE CHANGED THERE AND THEN. SO YOU'D HAVE A NICE LOCKER. YOU'D HAVE. I'M SORRY, I DON'T HAVE THE. WELL, THIS IS WHAT THE THIS WOULD BE THE WEST SIDE OR THE EAST SIDE OF THE ARENA. SO THAT'S WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE AS YOU GO UP. IT'S A NEW ENTRYWAY. AND I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT I SAW THE SCHEMATIC HERE. I THOUGHT, HE'S PUTTING THIS IN HERE. BUT IT'S DESIGNED NOW THAT WE CAN FIX UP THE BATHROOMS, HAVE NEW BATHROOMS, IT'S NOT FEASIBLE TO RAISE THE ROOF OF THE BUILDING AND GET THAT ROOF HIGHER. THAT'S NOT FEASIBLE. LET ME GET MORE PICTURES IN HERE. BUT I GUESS NOT. SO BEFORE LOCKER ROOMS AT THE FAR END. AND. I THINK HOW THE BATHROOMS ARE ALL GOING TO WORK. WELL, THE BATHROOMS WOULD BE MORE IN THE LOBBY AREA NOW, SO THERE'D BE LOCKER ROOMS DOWN AT THE END AND THEN THE LOBBY AND IT'S BUILT. IT'S DESIGNED NOW THAT WE CAN PHASE THOSE IMPROVEMENTS IN WHEN WE HAVE MONEY, WE DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY RIGHT NOW. SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING. SO BUT THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE DOING, TRYING TO UPGRADE THAT 60 YEAR OLD BUILDING TO MAKE IT NICE. I MEAN, IT'S UNBELIEVABLE HOW MANY KIDS ARE PLAYING HOCKEY NOW THAT ONE TIME THEY GO TO THE STATE AND IT'S LIKE CRAZY WITH PEOPLE PLAYING HOCKEY NOW. AND IT'S IT'S OVER $1,000 TO PLAY HOCKEY NOW. AND THAT'S, THAT'S JUST TO PLAY HOCKEY. THAT'S NOT EVEN YOUR SKATES AND EQUIPMENT TRAVEL AND TRAVEL.

YEAH. STILL THE BEST YEARS OF YOUR LIFE THOUGH FOR MY KIDS AROUND HOCKEY. NOT NOT GET CHASE CHASE MY GRANDDAUGHTER AROUND. BUT I WANTED TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE OF WHAT WHAT WE DID AT LILY LAKE. SO WE HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST US. NOW WE FOLLOW FALL BEHIND ON. A LOT OF THAT STUFF IS GETTING US UP TO THE TIMES. THANKS. SO ANY COMMISSIONER

[01:55:06]